ISO 9001:2015 Internal Audit Training Advice

Devin A

Involved In Discussions
#1
Hello,

I've been tasked with training someone within our organization to conduct internal audits. I'll readily admit that I don't have a great understanding of the proper way to conduct an internal audit, and I'd like to avoid passing on bad habits / incorrect information to the trainee.

What advice would you give to either myself or the trainee? Are there any great resources you know of for us to look over? I'd really appreciate any assistance here.
 
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qualprod

Trusted Information Resource
#2
The idea is to have people with competency to provide training, although not necessarily you have to teach high level knowledge.
It may be sufficient basic training to start the audits.
According to results , later you could reinforce the audit practices to your people, hiring an External guy.
Regards
 

smryan

Perspective.
#3
Are you a trained Internal Auditor? If not, this is really difficult. There is nothing wrong with an experienced IA mentoring a new IA, but someone in the history / chain should have some externally provided & certified training. Not that it is a legal requirement, but it sure could be a sticking point for an External Audit. As for resources, Elsmar Cove is AWESOME!!!

I've attached our WI for IA. Deleted company specific things, of course. I use it as a training for the new IAs and a refresher for the seasoned IAs each year. It is not THE way, it is A way. There will be a hundred others. Good luck and I hope this helps some.
 

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blackholequasar

Involved In Discussions
#4
I recommend the site advisera.com - they provide free lectures (you just have to pay for the certification, but the information is present) that will help you understanding becoming an Internal Auditor for ISO. I agree with @smryan - if you're not a trained internal auditor, this can really throw a wrench in teaching others how to do it.

You could also ask your organization if it's feasible to send you to an auditor training course. It could be very beneficial to you and your company in the future!
 

qualprod

Trusted Information Resource
#5
Are you a trained Internal Auditor? If not, this is really difficult. There is nothing wrong with an experienced IA mentoring a new IA, but someone in the history / chain should have some externally provided & certified training. Not that it is a legal requirement, but it sure could be a sticking point for an External Audit. As for resources, Elsmar Cove is AWESOME!!!

I've attached our WI for IA. Deleted company specific things, of course. I use it as a training for the new IAs and a refresher for the seasoned IAs each year. It is not THE way, it is A way. There will be a hundred others. Good luck and I hope this helps some.
If you have the resources $$ , send people to an external training, if it Is good company, for sure will give you theroric and practical training.
But nothing prohibits you to start as I suggested you at more economical cost
Thanks
 

Tagin

Trusted Information Resource
#6
I think it depends a lot on the baseline skills and abilities of the candidate(s). Some may require only an online study course, others need classroom training, others need one-on-one mentoring. As a small company, we outsource our internal ISO audit, mainly to get a fresh set of eyes looking at our system.
 

tony s

Information Seeker
Trusted Information Resource
#7
When performing internal audits, audit the processes against the organization's own requirements, relevant regulatory requirements, customer requirements, product/service requirements, contracts and agreements, policies, commitments, objectives, procedures, work instructions, control plans, operational plans and, lastly, relevant ISO 9001 requirements.

Don't use ISO 9001 clause-based checklist. Focus more on process performance than conformance. Look for evidences that processes are delivering the expected outputs. Look for evidences of what the process owners have committed themselves to do were actually done.
 

Kronos147

Trusted Information Resource
#8
What is the process?

What are the inputs?
What are the outputs?
How is it measured?
Where are the requirements? (Customer, internal and ISO 9001.) Have they been effectively identified? (Hey, how come the production process doesn't recognize 8.5.2 ID and traceability as one of their requirements?)
Has it been documented? Does this document require the organization to open a job, file a folder, send an acknowledgement? Can you confirm these things are done?
How is it controlled? Can you verify the controls work? ('We can't ship in the morning, as accounting locks us out to check the invoices'... true or false?)
What are the resources to the process? Are they valid? (People trained, equipment maintained, measuring devices calibrated, documents controlled)
 

qualprod

Trusted Information Resource
#9
When performing internal audits, audit the processes against the organization's own requirements, relevant regulatory requirements, customer requirements, product/service requirements, contracts and agreements, policies, commitments, objectives, procedures, work instructions, control plans, operational plans and, lastly, relevant ISO 9001 requirements.

Don't use ISO 9001 clause-based checklist. Focus more on process performance than conformance. Look for evidences that processes are delivering the expected outputs. Look for evidences of what the process owners have committed themselves to do were actually done.
Tony's why in internal audits, you don't recommend to use the standard?, this way internal auditors don't grow in knowledge in these practices.
Maybe better is to practice both
ways.
Regards
 

tony s

Information Seeker
Trusted Information Resource
#10
Tony's why in internal audits, you don't recommend to use the standard?,
Did I? What I've said is "...and lastly, relevant ISO 9001 requirements" and "Don't use ISO 9001 clause-based checklist". Give more importance on the effectiveness and performance of the process instead of conformance with the clauses of the standard. I would prefer to ask questions to obtain information to determine whether a process planned results are achieved and whether planned activities are realized. The standard is already structured using the "process approach". Most, if not all, of the vital components of a process correspond to specific clauses. For example, you will notice that the set of questions below correspond to the clauses:
  • what are the expected outputs of your process? (4.4.1a; 8.5.1a.2);
  • what do they (int/ext customer) expect from your process? (4.2);
  • how will you know if you are achieving the expected outputs? do you have indicators? (4.4.1c);
  • did you set measurable goals relevant to the expected outputs? (6.2);
  • do the int/ext customer care whether you achieved your goals or not? (6.2.1c);
  • what are the controls you established to produce the expected outputs? (4.4.1c; 8.1; a lot on clause 8);
  • what factors might prevent you from producing the expected outputs? (6.1.1);
  • what controls do you have in place to address these factors? (4.4.1f; 6.1.2; 8.1);
  • if the outputs you produced are different from what you expect how do you deal with them? (8.7);
  • etc.
 
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