ISO 9001:2015 - Scope of Registration

#1
I was just audited (Transition) to the new ISO 9001:2015 standard and the auditor stated that within the "scope of registration", which appears on our certificate, we needed to add Delivery. It was stated its because delivery is a service we provide (4.3(c)). Should delivery appear in our scope....I don't recall seeing any scopes of registrations with delivery included.

We were given a minor for this issue.
 

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
I was just audited (Transition) to the new ISO 9001:2015 standard and the auditor stated that within the "scope of registration", which appears on our certificate, we needed to add Delivery. It was stated its because delivery is a service we provide (4.3(c)). Should delivery appear in our scope....I don't recall seeing any scopes of registrations with delivery included.

We were given a minor for this issue.
I have never seen a nonconformance for a scope of registration issue.
I've seen recommendations, but in my experience it's not for the auditor to approve your scope... it's up to a different part of the registrar to do that.
I would push back on that being written as an NC.

Does your company actually physically deliver the product a paid service? I mean, I've been with companies that have manufactured products and had a truck (usually used to transport to outside processors and other sites) to run parts to customers as needed, but that was a complimentary and occasional service and we did not include it in the scope of our QMS.
 
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AndyN

A problem shared...
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Super Moderator
#4
I was just audited (Transition) to the new ISO 9001:2015 standard and the auditor stated that within the "scope of registration", which appears on our certificate, we needed to add Delivery. It was stated its because delivery is a service we provide (4.3(c)). Should delivery appear in our scope....I don't recall seeing any scopes of registrations with delivery included.

We were given a minor for this issue.
As has been stated, this is non-sense and is NOT the auditor's job to hold you accountable for something which the CB should have sorted out. I'd be complaining to the CB about this, so they know it needs to be stopped!
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
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Admin
#5
Re: ISO 9001:2015, Scope of Registration

It is the lead auditor’s responsibility to ensure the scope of the audit is adequately determined and the scope of the audit is affected by the scope of certification and the scope of the quality system.

The standard requires the scope of the system to be documented. If the auditor uncovered a problem there, s/he needs to bring it up.

Remember the context of the organization might change over time, so this is an issue that should be addressed in each and every surveillance audit, as this is a requirement of 17021.

But, even if the company provides delivery services as a stand-alone service line, it does not have to be in the scope of certification, if the organization chooses that.
 
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John Broomfield

Fully retired...
Trusted
#6
I was just audited (Transition) to the new ISO 9001:2015 standard and the auditor stated that within the "scope of registration", which appears on our certificate, we needed to add Delivery. It was stated its because delivery is a service we provide (4.3(c)). Should delivery appear in our scope....I don't recall seeing any scopes of registrations with delivery included.

We were given a minor for this issue.
Stevey,

Your auditor has his or her wires crossed. Defining the scope of the certification is the Registrar’s job not yours.

So, your Registrar may need to take some corrective action.

Does the scope of your management system include delivery of your service? If so who designs your service and is this covered by your management system?

John
 

Le Chiffre

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
Re: ISO 9001:2015, Scope of Registration

It is the lead auditor’s responsibility to ensure the scope of the audit is adequately determined and the scope of the audit is affected by the scope of certification and the scope of the quality system.

The standard requires the scope of the system to be documented. If the auditor uncovered a problem there, s/he needs to bring it up.

Remember the context of the organization might change over time, so this is an issue that should be addressed in each and every surveillance audit, as this is a requirement of 17021.

But, even if the company provides delivery services as a stand-alone service line, it does not have to be in the scope of certification, if the organization chooses that.
:applause:
Did the auditor catch that delivery was being offered as a service under the 9001 certification claim, in advertising perhaps?
Like the previous exclusions permitted by the organization, according to A.5 (of 9001:2015), "an organization can decide that a requirement cannot be applied to any of the processes within the scope of its quality management system". However "Cannot be" suggests that the exclusion is permitted if the activity is not relevant. In this case it sounds like it is undertaken therefore cannot be excluded.
The next sentence in A.5 defies (my) logic! "The organization can only decide that a requirement is not applicable if its decision will not result in failure to achieve conformity of products and services."
 
#9
Stevey,

Your auditor has his or her wires crossed. Defining the scope of the certification is the Registrar’s job not yours.

John


I disagree.


You may want to check ISO 9001:2015 4.3 Determining the Scope of the Quality Management System again.



I've changed a ton of "scopes" within the reports I have to file (mostly to better define/clarify them and all subject to review), but I sure didn't write a NC to any clients....That's total BS and pretty lame

Thanks!
 

John Broomfield

Fully retired...
Trusted
#10
I disagree.

You may want to check ISO 9001:2015 4.3 Determining the Scope of the Quality Management System again.

Thanks!
Kronos,

Sure, the auditee is responsible for defining the scope of their management system.

But here we are referring to the scope of the registrar’s certification of this system.

Best wishes,

John
 

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