ISO 9001 News ISO 9001:2025 - What should be changed in the next Edition of ISO 9001? - REVISION PROCEEDING- August 2023
- Thread starter Sidney Vianna
- Start date
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
The later, the better, as we all know, as it happens since 2000, this standard is not going to improve anything!
Olec Kovalevsky
Registered
I don't know if the new version will improve a lot or not. Indeed, there are many improvment opportunities : reduce redundancy, upgrade background on processes to get better compatibility with up to date Business Analysis and Enterprise Architecture practices, reinforce evidence-based process control, clarify "organisational knowledge" and how it differs from competency ...
Without upgrade, I fear that QMS and related people would not be able to pretend supporting performance any longer ...
Without upgrade, I fear that QMS and related people would not be able to pretend supporting performance any longer ...
It is quite obvious some people forget that any change to the standard will also affect organizations that are very early in their maturity journey and will never be ready nor willing to adopt sophisticated concepts; one of the reasons for 9004 being an utter adoption failure in the business world.
It is critical to keep in mind that 9001 is a baseline, foundational standard. Nothing prevents any organization to go way beyond the minimum requirements of 9001, but an attempt to add fuzzy concepts, especially ones that are not granular in nature nor auditable or verifiable would be a grave mistake.
It is critical to keep in mind that 9001 is a baseline, foundational standard. Nothing prevents any organization to go way beyond the minimum requirements of 9001, but an attempt to add fuzzy concepts, especially ones that are not granular in nature nor auditable or verifiable would be a grave mistake.
Olec Kovalevsky
Registered
Yes of course, ISO 9001 is a baseline ... but as any baseline (in any competitive field such as sports or business) quality management baseline is moving to stay in the game ... Most of business can't be efficiently handled without IT tools. IMHO Quality baseline standard should include IT baseline knowledge and tools (such as automated workflows ...) to be useful and efficient for today's companies ...
Not implying anything here, but there are a lot of consultants and consulting organizations peddling inane topics to be included in the revision to the standard so they can sell their services to unsuspecting victims assist their clients.
hmmm…there are still many small companies that don’t need “IT” solutions. And since ERP/standalone software has been used in companies since before ISO9000 and it’s derivatives ISO seems - in my experience - to sufficiently cover the requirements for processes whether they are manual or automated. @Olec Kovalevsky Can you provide specific examples of what would/could/should be added to ISO to cover “IT tools” that (1) aren’t already sufficiently covered and (2) do not require smaller companies to adopt automation that they don’t need and can’t afford?
Olec Kovalevsky
Registered
First of all, you have to know that I'm working only with small companies since 1997 ... Secondly, I'm not looking for more work and contracts because I have enough to do for some years ...
What I was waiting since mid 90's is to get tools that can operate workflows previously drawn in paper into dynamic workflows to support human work. Of course, somme business don't have processes with many interacting activities and actors. These companies don't need IT tools and many often are note interested in ISO 9001.
Since 1997, I've worked with more than 200 small companies ranging from 10 to 200 people who operate quite complex and sophisticated business processes, with TPT counted in weeks or months. Today, a significant part of these companies are happy firts to know that IT tools can help them to get work done faster and with better reliability and secondly when fully proved valid adopt and buy the services.
Tools like Visio and even others before helped us to make very nice diagrams but thes e diagrams stay in paper in folders not often known and especially not visible at the moment you really need them.
What IT offers to us today is to get these diagrams in action and operate work, quite easily and not very costly ... Return on invest is short, often less than one year.
Olec Kovalevsky
Registered
As for ISO standard, I would expect that the new version be more explicit on some points like :
- QMS requirements integrated into the organisation's business processes (article. 5.1.1.d) and then be more explicit on what can be QMS processes compared to business processes ?
- competence vs organisational knowledge (article 7.1.6 and 7.2) ... and so force the writers of the standard to clarify their mindset and background on relationship between processes, value streams and capabilities. These concepts are quite new and quality people seem to ignore them whereas they are dealing with the same purpose as quality. Do you think it's efficient ?
- the extend of evidence to prove that all planned activities or processes have been proceeded and verified as planned or adapted for specific and explicit reasons (article 8.5.1 in accordance with 8.1.e).
That would make me happy
! Nota : I don't expect ISO 9001 to promote IT tools, of course. And the existing requirement (e.g. article 8.1 : "the use, and control of suitable infrastructure and process environment" ) is enough provided the standard give more details to determine "suitable" or "appropriate" criteria ...
Update - ISO 9001 revision
committee.iso.org
They are so pathetic the name of the convenor is not even mentioned in the article.
