ISO 9001 3rd Party Audit Preparation - Open Issues Aspects

[Cari Spears]

At this late date, you are probably not going to make any huge difference in the system, but you can make a difference in perception of how you (your company) is reacting to a bad situation.

Yep.

You really need to decide if you are needed only to get through the surveillance, or if you are wanted to make a difference in the long run. good luck.

Yep - been there.

 

[potdar]

So Angie,

Finished your audit yet? We would all like to hear the outcome.

 

[Aaron Lupo]

Re: 3rd party audit prep

And with everything I am finding thus far, I really wonder about the credibility of the 3rd party auditor. I mean, how have things went on this long and not been brought up by a 3rd party.

What are some of the things you can't believe your Rgistrar/NB has not brought up?

I don't know who you use for a Registrar/Notified Body nor do I care. Remember they are there once maybe twice a year to SAMPLE your system. Perhaps what was happening when your Registrar/NB came in is things were hidden from them. It sounds as if the company you work for only wants ISO in name rather than living it, at least that is the feeling I get from reading your previous posts.

 

[acook81]

So Angie,

Finished your audit yet? We would all like to hear the outcome.

Audit is scheduled for Nov. 39th and 30th. Will let you know how we do. I have been really busy working with management, identifying issues and putting plans in place. I feel a lot better about it now then I did a few weeks ago.
Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[acook81]

I do need some additional help.
The company has excluded service, now the quality manual was reviewed and the auditor states that they need to write it up to say "post delivery activities" but the company does repairs either in house or at another company location due to warranty claims. I feel they should not exclude service, only design.
What are your thoughts and give me some good information to back it up so I can convince management not to exclude.

 

[acook81]

I do need some additional help.
The company has excluded service, now the quality manual was reviewed and the auditor states that they need to write it up to say "post delivery activities" but the company does repairs either in house or at another company location due to warranty claims. I feel they should not exclude service, only design.
What are your thoughts and give me some good information to back it up so I can convince management not to exclude.

The need for a little clarafication: Warranty claims are submitted and corrective actions are assigned based on those claims, the product is not always brought back in house for repairs, most of the time it is not. Is that a "post delivery activity?

 

[Coury Ferguson]

The need for a little clarafication: Warranty claims are submitted and corrective actions are assigned based on those claims, the product is not always brought back in house for repairs, most of the time it is not. Is that a "post delivery activity?

Are you talking about the entire 7.2 Section of ISO9001:2000?

As far as I read the requirements it says:

The Organization SHALL determine

(a) requirements specified by the customer, including the requirements for delivery and post-delivery activities

Note: I have capitalized all letters in the word "shall:"

Warranty Claims should fall under post-delivery and Corrective Action, in my opinion.

 

[Cari Spears]

I do need some additional help.
The company has excluded service, now the quality manual was reviewed and the auditor states that they need to write it up to say "post delivery activities" but the company does repairs either in house or at another company location due to warranty claims. I feel they should not exclude service, only design.

This sounds like us - except that we do all of our warranty work in-house - the customer returns the item to us. I originally wanted to exclude 7.5.1.5 because I was thinking along the lines of a company like Safety-Kleen who comes along every so often to clean and refill our parts washing tanks. We do not offer post delivery services like routine maintenance or anything but we do warranty our products.

In the end I did not exclude it - I handled it in our Production and Service Operations procedure (see 3.1.4 and 3.3.7) and our Control of Nonconforming Product procedure (see 3.2). Maybe you can do something similar.

What are your thoughts and give me some good information to back it up so I can convince management not to exclude.

Feel free to print out the attachments and show them to your powers that be if you think it will help.

 

[potdar]

I do need some additional help.
The company has excluded service, now the quality manual was reviewed and the auditor states that they need to write it up to say "post delivery activities" but the company does repairs either in house or at another company location due to warranty claims. I feel they should not exclude service, only design.
What are your thoughts and give me some good information to back it up so I can convince management not to exclude.

Angie,

I do not understand what your company has exactly meant by excluding service in the scope. There is no clause specifically devoted service in the standard which can be excluded. The standard clearly specifies that prduct also means service.

From what you have described, I understand that your company sells 'something with an attached warranty' as its product to the customers. So taking care of the warranty claims would naturally be your responsibility and you would be required to lay down a system for it. It will be a post delivery activity for you. It will not be a service that you sell to your customers, that shall feature in the scope of your certification.

Your 7.2 would already have covered these issues. If the CB specifically wants the words 'post delivery activity' written there, entertain them. What you need to review is 7.5

In most such cases, how we specify a system (and how it mostly is already working) is - ensure a single window handling of these issues + identify the products as NCP and let the NCP procedure take care of them + ensure that they are identified as 'customer property' and all necessary requirements are met.

The customer property angle is normally found to be missing. See to it that it is in place.


Best of Luck.

 

[AndyN]

Angie:

You've had some great advice here. As mentioned, since you've inherited a bit of a mess, there may well be little you can do, other than superficial tidying up, before the audit.

However, on the issue of 'post delivery activities', I don't agree that you have to have any work to do. Warranty and returns are not 'post delivery activities'. They are 'non-conforming products', (see 8.3) as soon as they hit the door. Your customer didn't want them and you shouldn't have made them.......

You were somewhat correct in your comments regarding 'servicing' as that's close to the intent. Also, the 'caveat' in section 7.5.1 says 'as applicable'.....

Andy