ISO 9001 8.4.1 - Determining controls applied to externally provided processes

jacoblh

Starting to get Involved
#1
My company uses our supplier's datasheet to verify part dimensions. The supplier does not notify us when dimensions change so we only find out when we have an issue. At that point the paperwork gets updated and the old rev is discarded.

Some parts, however, are catalog so I have transferred these dimensions to a database that I keep updated and rev controlled.

If we check for new datasheets once a year, does this step in our procedures conform to the standard.

I guess my fear is that because we do not check often for changes in datasheet so technically we could be checking against the WRONG one (not most updated). For example, if a dimensions is changed that is not critical so we do not notice that we are not checking against he most updated revision.

Jacob
 
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qualprod

Trusted Information Resource
#2
My company uses our supplier's datasheet to verify part dimensions. The supplier does not notify us when dimensions change so we only find out when we have an issue. At that point the paperwork gets updated and the old rev is discarded.

Some parts, however, are catalog so I have transferred these dimensions to a database that I keep updated and rev controlled.

If we check for new datasheets once a year, does this step in our procedures conform to the standard.

I guess my fear is that because we do not check often for changes in datasheet so technically we could be checking against the WRONG one (not most updated). For example, if a dimensions is changed that is not critical so we do not notice that we are not checking against he most updated revision.

Jacob
What kind of suppliers you are dealing with ?
In a relationship client -suppliers, the agreements and support is essential, if that supplier doesn't help you, change it .
Don't you perform supplier evaluation?
When is done, here is when you detect the suppliers problems and take actions to correct the problems.
Hope this helps
 

jacoblh

Starting to get Involved
#3
What kind of suppliers you are dealing with ?
In a relationship client -suppliers, the agreements and support is essential, if that supplier doesn't help you, change it .
Don't you perform supplier evaluation?
When is done, here is when you detect the suppliers problems and take actions to correct the problems.
Hope this helps
I agree however I am not in a position to make that change. I appreciate your thoughts.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#4
Wait! A supplier provides to your criteria, you don't bow or bend to their criteria.

Who's in control, you (the people with the check) or the supplier (the person that want's the check)?
 

Emmyd

Involved In Discussions
#5
What is your supplier contracted to provide you? If your PO specifies that part 123 should conform to dimensions x, y, z and you get part 123 that conforms with c, y, z - that should not be acceptable. I would see what your supplier contractually is supposed to be supplying and push back from there as applicable (if they aren't fulfilling . If this causes problems in your process or downstream at your customer, changing dimensions without notice is a deal breaker. Even if you aren't in a position to make any changes to the supplier relationship, I would still document the issue.
 

jacoblh

Starting to get Involved
#6
What is your supplier contracted to provide you? If your PO specifies that part 123 should conform to dimensions x, y, z and you get part 123 that conforms with c, y, z - that should not be acceptable. I would see what your supplier contractually is supposed to be supplying and push back from there as applicable (if they aren't fulfilling . If this causes problems in your process or downstream at your customer, changing dimensions without notice is a deal breaker. Even if you aren't in a position to make any changes to the supplier relationship, I would still document the issue.
We purchase part 123 with the requirements being that the part matches the specifications listed. The issue is that we cannot reasonably check for the most updated datasheet each time. I hope that my inquiry makes sense. I do understand that this is a bit strange as the phrase "My supplier doesn't update me when specifications are changed" is odd. It is the nature. We are a small business and they are the sole-supplier for most of our business.

Jacob
 

jacoblh

Starting to get Involved
#7
Wait! A supplier provides to your criteria, you don't bow or bend to their criteria.

Who's in control, you (the people with the check) or the supplier (the person that want's the check)?
We buy the parts. Our verification of supplied product includes a physical dimension check. We are as careful as possible but I worry about what an auditor may think.
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
Failure to establish effective contractual controls over your suppliers.

By now you should have issued this Corrective Action Request to the person responsible for purchasing so he or she can get a cross-functional team together to determine and remove the root causes of this nonconformity.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#9
We buy the parts. Our verification of supplied product includes a physical dimension check. We are as careful as possible but I worry about what an auditor may think.
OK, here's the deal, do you specify what it is that you want? Yes or No.....If no, shame on you
Are you getting what you specify? Yes or No .... If no shame on them and next question
If you get the wrong stuff are you telling your supplier it's WRONG? Yes or no....If no, shame on you
Does anybody with the authority to fix the problem really care to fix it? Yes or no.....If no, it's not your problem it's their's (remember you said you don't have the authority, so it's not your deely)

One question I have is "Why don't you check the datasheets?"

Another question is...:Why is this your problem?" If you don't have the authority to make changes, then make strong suggestions, document it and move on to something you do have authority to do....

Oh yeah, I'm an auditor, that's all I do, nothing else but audit, no consulting, no teaching, no selling the best gee-whiz bang quality thingy, nothing but audit and I'd have a ton of real world questions if I encountered what you've described, some already placed here by our friends.
 
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