ISO 9001 - 8.5.3 Overlapping with 8.4 and 8.5.4?

[Cari Spears]

8.4 If you buy something from a supplier - it's your property.
8.5.3 is about stuff that is someone else's property that is in your possession.
8.5.4 applies to both - your property and any one else's property in your possession.

 

[Dr. IJ Arora]

Hello everybody
It came across to my mind this issue regarding the care of property:

8.5.3 Property belonging to customers or external providers
The organization shall exercise care with property belonging to customers or external providers while
it is under the organization’s control or being used by the organization.
The organization shall identify, verify, protect and safeguard customers’ or external providers’ property
provided for use or incorporation into the products and services.

When the property of a customer or external provider is lost, damaged or otherwise found to be
unsuitable for use, the organization shall report this to the customer or external provider and retain
documented information on what has occurred.

My comments:
Focusing on products, Raw materials, Tools.

For Customers is clear, I can receive parts that will receive some modification or other process applied (painting,finishing) , maybe some raw material, I´ll apply 8.5.3 in order to take care of it, In fact it´s property of my customer.

But for External providers, most of what receive are: raw materials,equipment, In this case , I think the standard should specify that is for raw materials or equipment maybe in lent condition in order to take care of them, because if is to be used for production or implementation, these conditions (care) are already considered in 8.4 (verification of purchased materials) and 8.5.4 Preservation.
Additionally, because if it enters in the organization as a bought raw material, now is property of my organization.

The only conditions where is still property of an external provider is in lent condition.

In which cases or conditions do you think I have to control them under 8.5.3?.

Don´t you think this clause in the case of control of property of external providers are overlapped with 8.4 and 8.5.4?
regarding the control? and the term "property" is not clearly explained in its scope.

Please share your thoughts.

Thanks

The purpose of the clauses you have quoted is quite distinct and different. Please fist look at the group heading of clauses in each. 8.4 deals with outsourced processes and services and as such should not be considered in the context of your question. 8.5.4 deals with preservation. You may have produced a confirming product meeting requirements and inputs, but if you don't preserve it it could in time or due to neglect or mishandling go out of specification or not meet requirements. 8.5.4 requires the organization to therefore preserve it. Again my thought is don't connect it back to 8.5.3. The clause 8.5.3 is dealing with a ready product as property belonging to customer. It is specific. If I give my car for servicing the dealership must not damage it, Sperm/ eggs banks can not mix up customer property, ashes in a cemetery, Aircraft in a servicing hangar, or a service or a document, e.g. an attorney who has an original customer document needs to safeguard it, as also a doctor who has records of the patient and so on. Hope this helps you. I will be happy to answer any further questions.