ISO 9001 and Requirements as related to SAFETY - Procedure Control

Gman2

Involved - Posts
#1
I have a question about requirements as related to safety.
Right now I am re-writing the training procedure and I have come to safety, and basically I need to know how far I am required to go as far as controlling procedures/forms and such.

Right now we do have a safety program in place, our safety guy has a book with a general safety procedure (currently in the exact same format with numbers and revisions just like our QP's) along with all the seperate training procedures like; a procedure for protective eye equipment, a procedure for hi-lo safety, procedures for machine lock outs, etc all complete with tests and sign off sheets. There are a TON of these and each procedure goes throught the tests line by line and it is very detailed. Now this binder he has with all these procedures and forms are all numbered and have rev levels for the most part.
A lot of them are hand written rev levels and such, and I don't see any reference anywhere to this safety manual anywhere in the ISO Manual or procedures. So my question is, does thnis all have to be controlled by ISO?
An if I do want to reference the "General Safety" procedure to show that we do address training issues, do I then need to control THAT procedure? And is so what about all the other more specific procedures and forms?
Or should I just avoid it all together as far as ISO is concerned? I don't really see anything in the standard, and it would really just be adding a huge headache controlling all of those documents.
They appear to be controlled right now, but right now they are their own procedure/system.

Any thoughts on this?


Thanks

G.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
Okay, two quick questions?

1) Are these documents part of your QMS? A different angle of the question would be: If these documentes are removed, will your QMS suffer? Some may argue that 6.3 or 6.4 plays into this, but I don't think that would be universal. In some companies, it might, in others it might not.

If you answer to question # 1 is no, then you're finished. I might want to keep the justification handy in case the auditor questions. If the answer is yes, then ask yourself:

2) Do these documents need to be handled any differently than my other QMS documents? If the answer is no, then control them like you would any other QMS document. If the answer is yes, then figure out what control mechanisms are required for your safety docs.

does that help?
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#3
Gman2, this is a controversial subject for many people.

documents that are outside of your QMS, like db mentioned, do not need to be controlled in accordance with ISO 9001:2000 4.2.3.

Any well qualified auditor undertands that any audit has a scope of coverage. So, if I am conducting an audit of your QMS against the requirements of ISO 9001:2000, occupational health and safety (for the most part) fall OUTSIDE of the boundaries of such audit. So, the auditor would be out of line, auditing your OHSMS, including it's supporting documents.

Now, from your description, it looks like safety is VERY important for your organization. So, irrespective of your ISO 9000 effort, you should develop an structured OHSMS, which would include controlling the documents that relate to that system.

Below you will see the "documentation requirements" from OHSAS 18001:

4.4.4 Documentation
The organization shall establish and maintain information, in a suitable medium such as paper or electronic form, that:
a) describes the core elements of the management system and their interaction; and
b) provides direction to related documentation.
NOTE It is important that documentation is kept to the minimum required for effectiveness and efficiency.
4.4.5 Document and data control
The organization shall establish and maintain procedures for controlling all documents and data required by this OHSAS specification to ensure that:
a) they can be located;
b) they are periodically reviewed, revised as necessary and approved for adequacy by authorized personnel;
c) current versions of relevant documents and data are available at all locations where operations essential to the effective functioning of the OH&S system are performed;
d) obsolete documents and data are promptly removed from all points of issue and points of use or otherwise assured against unintended use; and
e) archival documents and data retained for legal or knowledge preservation purposes or both, are suitably identified.
 
#4
Hullo G,

I think you have recieved very good replys already, so I have little to add except for the following:

In our case, we have a management system covering Quality, Environment & Safety. In that sitution there is little doubt. The document should be controlled.

There is also ISO9001:2000, 6.4 to consider: The organization shall determine and manage the work environment needed to achieve conformity to product requirements. ISO9004:2000, 6.4 expands this to among other things: -safety rules and guidance, including the use of protective equipment...

The link betwen quality and saftety systems is pretty strong nowadays (As it should be).

/Claes
 

gpainter

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
We just mention in the SP that we are in compliance with OSHA. I told our safety person if the form is important to fill out add it to our system.
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#6
Can I stand up on my soapbox now? Why wouldn't you wish to keep your safety documentation within the system?

I'm not saying that my system is perfect, but as explained in another thread, my organization is a firm believer in going beyond the simple requirements of ISO 9001:2000. Our QMS, EMS and H&SMS all use the same platform...our Business Management System.

They would not fall under the scope of your ISO 9001:2000 registration, but why have multiple systems running parallel to each other when you can have all of them running together? Just curious. :)

Getting off my soapbox now, before someone pushes me off. ;)
 

gpainter

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
Most auditors stay away from safety issues unless it is blatent and most will tell you they are not OSHA. I agree it should be totally a part of the QMS as well as environmental, finance, SA 8000 and someday it will.
 

CarolX

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#8
Here's what we do...


Safety rules are part of our orientation program. To ease the system, we put all of the orientation in to the ISO program. Orientation includes general rules of conduct, brief job description, mission statement, work hours, etc., etc., etc. It just seemed to make more sense to put it all together.

We use training sheets for specific details. The first item on the sheet is machine operation and safety. Both the employee and the trainer have to sign off each step.

CarolX
 
A

Al the Elf

#9
Getting the safety guys involved !

Gman2 - Whilst you may have a great mandate for including the Safety documentation (as all my colleagues are pointing out in this thread), you'll still face the nitty gritty of getting the guys who feel the safety system is all their own to let you get your claws into it.

One thought about this is to think about your mechanism of doc control as the most obvious bit of a QMS to them - it'll be great if you can sell them on it being easier to handle, or more accessible, or easier to introduce change. If your existing doc control is long winded then it'll feel to them like they'd be entering the mire to join you. In short, think about the change equation - it's just as important as having the right clause in the standard, the moral right or the respect of auditors.

Good luck...

Al. :eek:
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#10
CarolX said:
Safety rules are part of our orientation program. To ease the system, we put all of the orientation in to the ISO program. Orientation includes general rules of conduct, brief job description, mission statement, work hours, etc., etc., etc. It just seemed to make more sense to put it all together.

We use training sheets for specific details. The first item on the sheet is machine operation and safety. Both the employee and the trainer have to sign off each step.
Very similar to what we do!

A training is generated show all documents, concepts, modules, and orientations that a new/transferred employee needs to complete.

General Safety (e.g., emergency evacuation procedure, radiation alarms, security threats, etc.) is covered prior to getting into job-specific safety protocols.

Many of our documents and modules contain safety information within them, so that an employee can clearly see how to apply their new knowledge.

And yes, sign-off is required. Both the instructor/supervisor and trainee are required to sign-off.

Should training take more than 90days, the employee's supervisor is flagged by Management and questioned about the delay. Sometimes it is paperwork...our supervisors are sometimes a little behind. Occasionally, there is a glitch in trying to coordinate training with other instructors. Management then facilitates the process by giving it top priority over any other tasks.
 
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