ISO 9001 Certification Nonconformance Root Cause Help!

[John Martinez]

Re: ISO Certification Nonconformance Root Cause Help!

Why can't it be a correction? Is it an 'expectation' of this CB?

Andy. Several auditors for several CB's are being put under pressure to require:
Correction/Containment.
Root Cause.
Corrective Action

The AB's including ANAB is writing NC's against CB's for accepting correction without root cause and corrective actions.

While I agree that sometimes a fix is all it takes, when it comes to accredited certification, it may not be allowed to accept only a correction on a 3rd party NC.

 

[AndyN]

Re: ISO Certification Nonconformance Root Cause Help!

Andy. Several auditors for several CB's are being put under pressure to require:
Correction/Containment.
Root Cause.
Corrective Action

The AB's including ANAB is writing NC's against CB's for accepting correction without root cause and corrective actions.

While I agree that sometimes a fix is all it takes, when it comes to accredited certification, it may not be allowed to accept only a correction on a 3rd party NC.

John, I completely understand. Of course, it's dependent on the nature of the finding which should 'point' the way to remediation: Correction or corrective action.

It may be that an AB auditor is as tainted by the need for RCA each time, rather than based on a full understanding of the situation at hand.

 

[Randy]

How about..."Oops, we dropped the ball that time didn't we"?

 

[somashekar]

This kind of issue should had been discovered during the stage 1 audit (adequacy check). If the CB can overlook, why not you? After all, they are the expert and you are the novice. I had seen it happening before and a correction is acceptable.

Very rightly said by Harry, its a stage1 assessment finding that was done in stage 2. Perhaps if the auditor had let for a correction within audit time, the OP would have had only two NC's. The auditor must have felt in this case to add this also to make just three. . .
I still feel a root cause and corrective action can be taken up in this instant without being too elaborate. A revisit to procedures at the beginning stage is always good to bridge gaps if present rather than doing later.

 

[Onayt]

I totally agree with Ajit...you may want to conduct the basic 5 why's...i think you'll have your answer there...cheers

 

[SteelMaiden]

I've had to use Randy's "Oops, sorry, we dropped the ball on this one". Especially if this is your registration audit. Sure, you can get all long and drawn out.
why-we didn't document it in our procedure
why-we didn't think about it
why-we didn't know any better
why-we aren't as competent as we could be
why-this is our first attempt at registration

Would that make you feel better? this is actually a pretty easy fix for you, and I congratulate you that this seems to be the worse thing you had to face. Good job!

 

[AndyN]

Some times, the answer is so obvious, it doesn't need any analysis, 5 Why's, 8 'D's or anything else. As Randy and Steel say...

 

[earthboundmisfit82]

Obviously the correction to this problem is easy. I wasn't asking what I needed to do. I was just having a hard time conducting a root cause analysis on something so simple as this! Again though, thanks to everyone for the help.

 

[tsmith7858]

Some times, the answer is so obvious, it doesn't need any analysis, 5 Why's, 8 'D's or anything else. As Randy and Steel say...

Interesting to hear you say that Andy.

I was in a heated discussion with an auditor in May for an ISO 9001/ISO 22000 combined audit because I said the same thing and the auditor told me that "everything" needs a root cause conducted.

My arguement was that some things are obvious and don't need a root cause. We eventually agreed to disagree but he still noted it as an OFI.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Interesting to hear you say that Andy.

I was in a heated discussion with an auditor in May for an ISO 9001/ISO 22000 combined audit because I said the same thing and the auditor told me that "everything" needs a root cause conducted.

My arguement was that some things are obvious and don't need a root cause. We eventually agreed to disagree but he still noted it as an OFI.

Even when things are obvious, there's still a sort of RCA that goes on in your head. It sometimes happens so quickly and so inconspicuously that we don't notice it. You see the problem and a bunch of possibilities might stream through your noodle, and you quickly latch onto the most sensible one. In a case like yours and the OP's, I would tell the auditor that I did do the RCA, but it's not worth documenting.

This reminds me, by the way, of something a writer (whose name I don't recall) said in answer to the question, "What's the most difficult thing about writing for a living?" His answer: "Explaining to my wife that when I'm sitting at my desk gazing out the window, I am working."

A similar one from humorist James Thurber, who came to the dinner table one night and seemed unusually distant to his young daughter. She asked her mother "What's wrong with Daddy?" Thurber's wife replied, "Oh, don't worry about Daddy--he's writing."