ISO 9001 Certification Nonconformance Root Cause Help!

[earthboundmisfit82]

Our auditor absolutely insists on root cause analysis to be done for EVERY single corrective action whether it's internal,customer requested and especially for a nonconformance that he himself has found (whether the issue at hand is obvious or not).

 

[Stijloor]

Our auditor absolutely insists on root cause analysis to be done for EVERY single corrective action whether it's internal,customer requested and especially for a nonconformance that he himself has found (whether the issue at hand is obvious or not).

You auditor's head needs to be reformatted. :mg:

The Standard says:

Corrective actions shall be appropriate to the effects of the nonconformities encountered

Doing a root cause analysis on a nonconformity where the cause is so darn clear and obvious, is a waste of time.
Time is better spent on more serious issues. As is often said on The Cove: "There are bigger fish to fry."

Stijloor.

 

[John Martinez]

Re: ISO Certification Nonconformance Root Cause Help!

John, I completely understand. Of course, it's dependent on the nature of the finding which should 'point' the way to remediation: Correction or corrective action.

It may be that an AB auditor is as tainted by the need for RCA each time, rather than based on a full understanding of the situation at hand.

While I agree that there are questionable auditors who do not understand, if the CB technical department refuses to buy off on it, I don't know what can be done. Again, not disagreeing, just stating what I'm seeing.

 

[Stijloor]

Re: ISO Certification Nonconformance Root Cause Help!

While I agree that there are questionable auditors who do not understand, if the CB technical department refuses to buy off on it, I don't know what can be done. Again, not disagreeing, just stating what I'm seeing.

John,

The Client can appeal the CB's/Registrar's decision can't they?

Next is to change CB.

Stijloor.

 

[AndyN]

Re: ISO Certification Nonconformance Root Cause Help!

While I agree that there are questionable auditors who do not understand, if the CB technical department refuses to buy off on it, I don't know what can be done. Again, not disagreeing, just stating what I'm seeing.

It's an indication of the (sad) status of the industry and the minimal qualifications required to be in it. I believe too many clients (and I don't mean a few major sector customers, like auto and aerospace) don't demand enough of their CB. They seem either to have low expectations, or are unwilling/unable to change. We see it all the time in this very forum.

The days of this kind of low level auditor performance, doggedly sticking to out dated tactics are numbered. The whole value of CB audits is coming under very close scrutiny and, unless individual auditors develop some kind of self preservation tactic, like not making a deal of RCA for everything they're 'lucky' to find, (and I do believe a lot of it is blind luck) - we (auditors, consultants etc) will all go the way of the dinosaur...

 

[Randy]

Forrest Gump said it best..."S**t happens" and anybody that doesn't understand that reality needs treatment.

 

[Kales Veggie]

You auditor's head needs to be reformatted. :mg:

The Standard says:



Doing a root cause analysis on a nonconformity where the cause is so darn clear and obvious, is a waste of time.
Time is better spent on more serious issues. As is often said on The Cove: "There are bigger fish to fry."

Stijloor.

Excellent, Jan. Referring to the standard.

 

[Stijloor]

Excellent, Jan. Referring to the standard.

Bedankt Kees!

Jan.

 

[Allasm]

Our auditor absolutely insists on root cause analysis to be done for EVERY single corrective action whether it's internal,customer requested and especially for a nonconformance that he himself has found (whether the issue at hand is obvious or not).

I think it worth to be done as he asked, just to get certified, it looks like your auditor is looking from another angle as he see it that your procedure mentioning that you need to do RCA for a NC, so not doing it because it is obvious is another NC

so just be frank do it professionally with Fishbone or 5W or 4M and get your report attached to NC , am sure he will accept it .

good luck

 

[jkuil]

This whole discussion goes on about the root cause, but lets accept you justed missed it. My question would be, how many non-conforming purchased materials are not handled appropiately?
If this audit finding was raised due to an example of non-conforming purchased materials not handled properly, then the root cause "I just missed it while drafting the procedure" is inadequate. Anyone who identified non-conforming purchased materials should have raised the fact that there was not an applicable procedure available. But why haven't they. If all non-conforming purchased materials were handled appropiately, why raise an audit finding as such an addition to the procedure does not improve quality. As stated before, there might be no necessity to identify all potential sources of nonconforming materials in your procedure.