ISO 9001 Clause 5 - Leadership (as a Process?)

[normzone]

I think I'm screwed on this one.

My standards for what constitute leadership may be too high for the average management team to meet.

Remember what George Carlin said about average people?

“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”

My expectation of a leader is that they work to develop their employees so that the employees, and therefore organization continually improve.

But this thread seems to confirm the tack that my current top dogs take - that management, supervision, and leadership are all the same thing, and if you run the company from the top you are the leader, and automatically performing leadership. End of story.

I don't think they are really that thick, it's just an easy evasion. Then again, not everybody wants to be mentored in the manner I have always looked for. The path of least resistance is well trodden.

So if external auditors deign to see it in the same light, then I don't expect any gain from this element being induced into the standard. I guess time will tell.

 

[normzone]

Damn .... That cannot be a good sign, when you go looking for help on the forum and the best you can find is your own post bemoaning that you need some help.

Case in point, 9001:2015 internal audit I'm struggling to finish per 5.1.1 j) :

How does top management support other management roles to demonstrate leadership?

Have a good weekend everybody -

 

[Sidney Vianna]

How does top management support other management roles to demonstrate leadership?

Totally hypothetical scenario :

Quality manager (other relevant management role) is frustrated because many silo landlords department heads process owners don't pay attention to requests for corrective actions in their respective areas of influence, leaving quality problems lingering. They don't believe it is their responsibility to answer to the lowly quality manager

The leadership of the organization has a chance to demonstrate if they are committed or not by demanding actions and responses from the people who are totally disregarding the RCA's.

[sarcasm]I know, I know, a totally fictional scenario. It could never happen in the real world. [/sarcasm]

 

[Golfman25]

Totally hypothetical scenario :

Quality manager (other relevant management role) is frustrated because many silo landlords department heads process owners don't pay attention to requests for corrective actions in their respective areas of influence, leaving quality problems lingering. They don't believe it is their responsibility to answer to the lowly quality manager

The leadership of the organization has a chance to demonstrate if they are committed or not by demanding actions and responses from the people who are totally disregarding the RCA's.

[sarcasm]I know, I know, a totally fictional scenario. It could never happen in the real world. [/sarcasm]

Well in fact it is not their responsibility to ansewer to the lowly quality manager. It is their responsibility to correct any issues under their control.

 

[SpinDr99]

I agree Sydney, that would never happen in the real world. In my world, management doesn't give me the opportunity to write NCR's because my hands are shackled!

So I continue to ask myself "What am I doing here?"

 

[TrustAuto1]

If you have Leadership as a process, then it must be audited correct? How do you audit this process when your leadership consists of Directors, and Managers and I'm talking more than just a couple. Due interview supervisors as well?

 

[AndyN]

If you have Leadership as a process, then it must be audited correct? How do you audit this process when your leadership consists of Directors, and Managers and I'm talking more than just a couple. Due interview supervisors as well?

The answers are a lot easier if you DON'T treat Leadership as a process (because it isn't). If you assign Process Owners and ensure they understand the Leadership requirements, then you can audit their process and the audit becomes a lot easier.

 

[armani]

How do organization demonstrate 5.1.1a?

 

[qualprod]

I work for a company who are not currently ISO9001 certified, but we have very recently started working towards certification to ISO9001:2015. This is because the MD and Senior Management team think that it is right for the business, and a number of potential and new customers are requesting this.

I had a visit from a key customer in the week who stated that there should be a business process clearly defined for Leadership. I do not agree with the auditor.

My take on it is that for clause 5.1.1 - General, we can demonstrate that the Leadership is fulfilling the requirements of a) - j) with objective evidence which could be verified through audit activity.

For 5.1.2 - Customer Focus point a), the specification provided as part of the design process along with the technical file for our CE mark meets this requirement.
Point b) is addressed through our risks and opportunities register
Point c) we monitor and measure customer facing metrics, track repeat business and are looking ta introducing customer surveys.

For 5.2, there is a quality policy in evidence that meets the requirements defined, and this is communicated and there is evidence that people are aware of this and understand it.

For 5.3, we have an organizational chart, job descriptions and process documents which define the requirements of a) to e).

Has anyone got any thoughts on the need for a Leadership process document? I am struggling to see the need, but the customer auditor was adamant that one was required. Am I missing something? Thank-you.

Starting off, from process definition, Is not a process?
Top manager has imputs, into it there are developed activities, has outputs, then is a process.
Normally I see processes map, including on top the management.when auditing, is audited like any other process, so why not?
Hope this helps

 

[AndyN]

Starting off, from process definition, Is not a process?
Top manager has imputs, into it there are developed activities, has outputs, then is a process.
Normally I see processes map, including on top the management.when auditing, is audited like any other process, so why not?
Hope this helps

If you believe it is, please provide a concrete example, relating to the standard for us to understand...