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ISO 9001 - Gigantic waste or Beneficial? Why does ISO 9001 exist? Got data/facts?

Paul Simpson

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As promised

As a few people seem to have looked at the John Seddon letter I will post my response. Whilst I agree with most cove members that ISO 9001 on its own cannot provide all the answers I do believe that if implemented properly the standard does have a lot to offer to people who understand the spirit and want to use their management system to improve. Again any feedback gratefully received.
 

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Sidney Vianna

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I like your response. While ISO 9000 has many detractors around the world, and, without a doubt, it is misapplied in a high percentage of cases, when properly embraced, as a component of an organization’s business management system it can be very effective.

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Sidney Vianna

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Intel CEO on the need for International Standards

http://www.iso.org/iso/en/commcentre/pressreleases/2005/Ref950.html

Ref.: 950
16 February 2005


Intel CEO on the need for International Standards

"Companies that embrace standards that have been globally adopted and reflect world-wide consensus are in the best position to succeed because they are able to create world-class products based on high-quality standards."

This is the view of Craig R. Barrett, chairman and chief executive officer of Intel, the world-leading semiconductor technology company. Barrett is the subject of an exclusive interview in the February issue of ISO Focus (www.iso.org/isofocus), the magazine of the International Organization for Standardization.

"These products have the benefit of being developed with broad participation, incorporating global perspectives and requirements," Barrett tells ISO Focus. "Standards that have been adopted globally free companies to compete in various markets around the world without having to develop multiple versions of a product."

Barrett appreciates that ISO standards are associated with worldwide consensus and quality. "Use of ISO standards in areas of management systems and supplier's declaration of conformity," he says, "have helped us maintain our world-class manufacturing excellence …. Meeting these requirements will inspire high confidence among governments, regulatory bodies and consumers because the standard represents a world-class benchmark that can be applied globally across all businesses."

As a 'building-blocks' supplier, Intel uses ISO standards in its own products as well as to help set electronics industry-specific standards in, for example, the area of design for environment. Says Barrett, "Intel seeks to conform to international standards to promote product harmonization and to facilitate trade, which in turn makes it easier for our adopters and customers to market their products and compete in more markets around the world."

Both ISO 9001:2000 and ISO 14001:2004 management system standards, respectively for quality and environment, are fully integrated in Intel's corporate quality network and environmental, health and safety organizations world wide. "We have been able to use [ISO 9001] and its revisions as a means of driving continuous improvement in many areas," Barrett says in the interview. "In addition, we have leveraged the framework in our supplier selection, management and recognition processes, enabling us to keep pace with increasing expectations on supply chain performance."

Global standards also bring a great many benefits to consumers, Barrett emphasizes: "They lead to a higher number of product offerings for consumers, and introduce more competition and lower costs. Consumers are more willing to buy products when they are based on such standards because it is a safer choice."

"Intel remains a committed contributor to the development of ISO specifications," says the company's CEO. The world is getting smaller as people and countries become more interconnected, so the need for global standards has grown …. We look forward to ISO's continued leadership."

Note for editors: Craig R. Barrett, having served in several senior managerial posts in Intel since joining the company in 1974, has been Chief Executive Officer since 1998 and will serve as Chairman of the Intel board of directors from May 2005. In addition to authoring more than 40 technical papers dealing with the influence of microstructure on the properties of materials, and a textbook on materials science, he is a trustee for the US Council for International Business and a board member of the US Semiconductor Industry Association as well as of the Silicon Valley Manufacturing Group. He was recently elected Chair of the National Academy of Engineering, is Co-Chairman of the Business Coalition for Excellence in Education and Chairman of the Computer Systems Policy Project.
Press contact:
Ms. Elizabeth Gasiorowski-Denis
Journalist
Public Relations
Tel. +41 22 749 01 11
Fax +41 22 733 34 30
E-mail [email protected]
 

Sidney Vianna

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According to the Heads Up #61 from ANAB, output matters. I.e., certified QMS's must deliver on customer satisfaction...
Summary

The consistent application of criteria in auditing an organization’s QMS with regard to achieving customer satisfaction, delivering conforming product, and continually improving the QMS is imperative. This is especially important to the continued reliance of the customer supply chain and other interested parties on the added value of the third-party certification system. To achieve the intended purposes of ISO 9001:2000, certified organizations must be held accountable. Outputs do matter!
I hope the Accreditation Bodies take this to heart themselves and weed out the registrars that are not doing what they are supposed to. Because if accreditation is not enhancing confidence on registrar's performance, they are not doing their part either....


 
G

gaboring

How could this be a waste?

Damian,
Thank you for your comments. With respect to the business I am involved, there needs to be controls in place so that ALL components we manufacture for our core products are installed in a inform manner. I am in the RF shielding business and this is a business niche that needs controls that are specific and rigid. Especially from a manufacturing angle.

What we are doing with ISO is to make improvements to our internal business so our external business goals were much easier to achieve.
My 2 cents, thanks.
 
A

Art - 2008

ISO 9001 - Gigantic waste or beneficial?

There is a whole lot more to running an organization that what is covered by ISO 9001 or any of its variants (TS, TL, AS, etc.). As long as ISO continues to have this limited focus, it will never receive the recognition that it seeks. Because of its limitations, organizations typically do not see it as a tool to improve their business, but rather just to do the minimal for the marketing value of certification.
How much and to what extent, of the following list of business activities, do you think ISO 9001 addresses?
General management; sales and marketing strategies; product strategies; pricing strategies; product and manufacturing technology; resources and infrastructure; operations management; quality and environment management; finance, accounting and administration; communications and information technology; investor relations and regulatory compliance.
This list is far from complete.
The success of an organization lies in the strategies it uses to deploy these business activities in satisfying the needs of its stakeholders.
It boils down to this critical question – what is the purpose of ISO management standards – Is it to improve the quality of an organization’s products or to improve the organization? Most advocates will say the latter. If that is the case, then how can it possibly do so if it only addresses a small portion of an oranizations scope of activities?
Let me give you a typical example – nowadays, most companies use significant IT technology that impact just about every activity listed above. Yet there is nothing in the ISO 9001 standard that addresses this. Most Certification Body auditors will usually look at electronic documentation and records and leave it at that. They are, by and large, not trained and indeed afraid to tread into this area. But look at the risk of IT. What if IT systems fail? And operations come to a standstill?
Then there is the issue of ISO always trying to play catch-up. The so-called 8 quality management principles were introduced with the 2000 version. But these were around long before the 1994 version. Will the next version borrow from the leadership and accountability requirements contained within SOX Act?

Art Lewis
 
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Jim Wynne

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Welcome to the Cove, Art :bigwave:

Art said:
How much and to what extent, of the following list of business activities, do you think ISO 9001 addresses?
General management; sales and marketing strategies; product strategies; pricing strategies; product and manufacturing technology; resources and infrastructure; operations management; quality and environment management; finance, accounting and administration; communications and information technology; investor relations and regulatory compliance.
How many of those is the ISO standard intended to address? Do you think that the standards should relieve business owners from the responsibility of thinking for themselves? The fact is that the standard provides a uniform framework for accomplishing those objectives, and isn't meant to replace the hard work it takes to be successful.

Art said:
It boils down to this critical question – what is the purpose of ISO management standards – Is it to improve the quality of an organization’s products or to improve the organization?
It's a false dichotomy. How can you do one without doing the other? Not only that, the purpose of the standards is not to improve anything except the uniformity of the infrastructure needed to be successful. We all know that it's possible for lousy businesses to achieve ISO registration. What I don't understand is why that fact surprises anyone. It's possible to spend $50,000 remodeling your kitchen and still make inedible food.

Art said:
Let me give you a typical example – nowadays, most companies use significant IT technology that impact just about every activity listed above. Yet there is nothing in the ISO 9001 standard that addresses this.
Of course there is, even if the reference isn't explicit. It's not possible to address the interaction of processes without addressing the modes of interaction.

Art said:
Most Certification Body auditors will usually look at electronic documentation and records and leave it at that. They are, by and large, not trained and indeed afraid to tread into this area.
If that's true, how is it the fault of the standard?

Art said:
But look at the risk of IT. What if IT systems fail? And operations come to a standstill?
What indeed. What prevents auditors from addressing IT within the framework of process efficacy?
 

Sidney Vianna

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Cuspindo no prato que comeu?

Art, you used your post to plug your website, but you show so little understanding of what ISO is.... ISO is MUCH MORE than ISO 9001.
So many ISO standards addressing so many issues and so many stakeholder issues.... For someone that seems to make a living helping people implementing QMS's according to international standards, you seem to be overly critical of the standard that pays your bills.
 

Paul Simpson

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It's good to be back!

Sidney Vianna said:
Art, you used your post to plug your website, but you show so little understanding of what ISO is.... ISO is MUCH MORE than ISO 9001.
So many ISO standards addressing so many issues and so many stakeholder issues.... For someone that seems to make a living helping people implementing QMS's according to international standards, you seem to be overly critical of the standard that pays your bills.
Glad to see nothing has changed in the few weeks I've been away. Every so often someone puts their head above the parapet to have a go at ISO and before they can get the benefit Sidney comes back with both barrels! :lol:

On a serious note there is some truth in Art's post - there are some auditors out there who don't understand enough about business processes. The examle of IT is a poor one however. It's not the IT that is the important thing to understand but the business processes and data management, without an understanding of that the IT knowledge is meaningless.

Sidney Vianna said:
Thumbs down Cuspindo no prato que comeu?
What's that all about Sidney?
 
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