ISO 9001 Implementation and Certification - 6 Years of Advice

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Taking my company to ISO 9001 certification - Some advice for me?

I did not say it wasn't part of continual improvement. Corrective action may be an input for continual improvement but, in and of itself it is not continual improvement. Corrective action is self-descriptive. Correct something that is broken. In other words - return it to it's original state.

What if the original state is inadequate? By circumscribing the limits of CA to just returning something to its original condition and walking away, you're causing CA to be inadequate. If CA doesn't constitute improvement, then there's something wrong with the CA being applied.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Taking my company to ISO 9001 certification - Some advice for me?

Hi mikeb,
First, registrars are now called certification boards or CBs.

Sometimes we are called something much, much worse. Certification bodies (not boards, even though we are stiff) or registrars, both designations are current and appropriate.

One final thing: ISO 9001 is being revised next year. If you get your certification before the revision is published you will have 3 years to transition to the 2008 revision.

I might have missed, but last time I checked, the IAF had not stipulated the transition grace period to the 4th Edition of ISO 9001. I doubt, though, it will be more than 24 months. More likely 18 months.

 

[driaadi]

Re: Taking my company to ISO 9001 certification - Some advice for me?

I have looked over 9004 and 9000, I haven't read the other one you were mentioning. I believe 9004 it's a bit too much for now, because we just want to get ISO 9000 certified, from what I understand 9004 is more about continuos improvement, but first we have to implement something, before we can improve it, right??

We must have 3 months of implementation, before the first external audit, our CB says, so what can we improve in 3 months? In 3 months we have to have one MR and one internal audit, these are the minimum, so how can we improve in 3 months a sistem so... young?

 

[michellemmm]

Re: Taking my company to ISO 9001 certification - Some advice for me?

I have looked over 9004 and 9000, I haven't read the other one you were mentioning. I believe 9004 it's a bit too much for now, because we just want to get ISO 9000 certified, from what I understand 9004 is more about continuos improvement, but first we have to implement something, before we can improve it, right??

Can you specify what is too much in 9004?

Wouldn't you be interested in having a system based on prevention?

 

[driaadi]

Re: Taking my company to ISO 9001 certification - Some advice for me?

Unfortunately, I do not know your organisation well enough to say it complies - its difficult from a distance.

I just hope my map complies... what would be the reason for it not complying if that is what we do?

I don't know where to put accounting though, because I see it as a measurement process, but it may also be seen as a tool for ensuring resources. What do you think?

 

[driaadi]

Re: Taking my company to ISO 9001 certification - Some advice for me?

Can you specify what is too much in 9004?

Wouldn't you be interested in having a system based on prevention?

I believe 9004 is more advanced than 9000, and we must take it one step at a time, that's all, it is more descriptive, it helps you understand better 9000, but I didn't say something is too much in it, it may be too much for us.

Starting a system from scratch, I believe, we must meet 9000 requirements first, get used to it, and then target more.

 

[majorhal - 2009]

Re: Taking my company to ISO 9001 certification - Some advice for me?

If the original process was inadequate then it certainly needs CI. CI can and should result from CA. CA should be a significant part of CI. My post addressed mikeb's original question about what are some of the common nonconformances. I'm only telling as I see it from nearly 20 years as an auditor.

Colpart-I make no assumptions about you and my comments aren't addressed to you personally. The comments were for all readers and posters in the thread or forum.

Maybe we should get back on topic and address the original issues that mikeb asked about.

 

[JaneB]

Re: Taking my company to ISO 9001 certification - Some advice for me?

I have looked over 9004 and 9000, I haven't read the other one you were mentioning. I believe 9004 it's a bit too much for now, because we just want to get ISO 9000 certified, from what I understand 9004 is more about continuos improvement, but first we have to implement something, before we can improve it, right??

I agree with your reasoning and think you're on the right track here.

We must have 3 months of implementation, before the first external audit, our CB says, so what can we improve in 3 months? In 3 months we have to have one MR and one internal audit, these are the minimum, so how can we improve in 3 months a sistem so... young?

Well - exactly. It's tricky, which is what makes setting such a tiny timeframe very difficult. Why so tight?

Bottom line: you can't argue with any auditor that 'we haven't had time to improve something, so can we just skip that requirement please?'
The answer: no, it's a mandatory requirement. So, you must be able to show you meet it. No ifs, ands or buts.

One way is to audit, during that find problems or weaknesses within your system, identify them, & then fix them - feed it into MR. Perhaps you planned to anyway, and yes, it's a bit silly in one sense, but it does give you practice in stepping through your process and seeing if it works well in practice. Or you could extend the timeframe out a bit further. After all, the aim is to really improve & get better, no?

 

[driaadi]

Re: Taking my company to ISO 9001 certification - Some advice for me?

JaneB, you really helped me clarify some things.

Still, can anybody give me some feedback about my map... I fell ashamed I keep asking, but I keep trying.

If I have other questions I'll dare again.

You are all great, I'm just so new to this and I feel I know nothing, the more I learn, the less I know!

 

[CliffK]

Re: Taking my company to ISO 9001 certification - Some advice for me?

JaneB, you really helped me clarify some things.

Still, can anybody give me some feedback about my map... I fell ashamed I keep asking, but I keep trying.

Man, I feel your pain. All you want to know is if the auditor will accept your chart, and nobody will give you a straight answer.

I wish I could give you a straight answer, but here's the best I can do: he might. Sorry. Wish I could do better.

You can tilt things in your favor if:

1. You really understand and can explain how the chart identifies your processes.
2. You really understand and can explain how the chart shows the sequence and interaction of your processes.
3. You are willing to tell the auditor that the chart belongs to your company and it works for your company. If he has a problem with the chart, he needs to justify it in terms of the requirements of the standard. He can't issue an NC based on style, or because the chart is too busy or because it doesn't follow some set of flowcharting conventions.

Auditors see all manner of misbegotten flow charts. I think some have gotten to the point where they'll accept most anything.

Caution. Unsolicited advice follows.

The "all on one page" thing is a big fallacy. Take as many pages as you need. (I know, more diverging advice. Just what you need. Sorry, I can't help it.)

The real question about flow charts is not whether they comply. The real question is do they help the company understand its own workings and diagnose problems that occur. If the answer is yes, they have paid for themselves regardless of what some auditor thinks. If the answer is no, then they're just wall paper.

The quality manual used to be the anchor of the QMS, but it has largely devolved into a long assertion that the company adheres to ISO 9001, or a one-page, minimum requirements quickie. A well-made and well-understood set of process maps can be much more useful, and a better anchor.

If I have other questions I'll dare again.

You are all great, I'm just so new to this and I feel I know nothing, the more I learn, the less I know!

Hang in there, pardner.