ISO 9001 Internal Audit Checklists and Process Audits

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cleverfox

#21
Re: Seeking: Internal Audit Checklists

I have reviewed many of the checklists posted here and they are really good, I may use some of the ideas posted here. I thought that I would share my thoughts as well on this subject.

I have auditors who are not really well versed to the standard and get that deer in the headlights look at the mention of concepts of auditing or anything to do with the QMS. So I have had to design systems and checklists that sort of trick them into using things. I have created a checklist that tells an auditor where to go, what to look for specifically and whom to interview. If I did not they would be clueless and my audit program would be a flop.

You may ask why the company doesn't send these auditors for training. Well, they simply do not have the resources, it is a very small company and we all wear many hats (as I am sure many of my counterparts here do as well).

My checklist requires a little more work on my behalf to write, but so far has been more useful to my auditors. Also, this is just for M.O.P.'s (management oriented process), I still need to draft S.O.P. & C.O.P.'s checklists yet.

Take a look and see if it will help you.

Regards,
fox
 

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M Greenaway

#22
Re: Seeking: Internal Audit Checklists

I have also considered creating such checklists in the past, but felt they were too restrictive, and took so much time to produce it would be quicker to do the audit myself.

There is also the danger that by leading the auditor too much by the nose you are in effect removing his impartiality.
 
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galcantar

#23
Re: Seeking: Internal Audit Checklists

M Greenaway said:
I have also considered creating such checklists in the past, but felt they were too restrictive, and took so much time to produce it would be quicker to do the audit myself.

There is also the danger that by leading the auditor too much by the nose you are in effect removing his impartiality.
I agree with you statements but, my experience taught me that you need to help "rookies" auditors in the way that you tell them what's to look then as they make more audits / get more experience you can "lead" them to make/use his/ her own checklist, style, ability- skills, criteria, etc.
 
E

energy

#24
Re: Seeking: Internal Audit Checklists

M Greenaway said:
I have also considered creating such checklists in the past, but felt they were too restrictive, and took so much time to produce it would be quicker to do the audit myself.

There is also the danger that by leading the auditor too much by the nose you are in effect removing his impartiality.
You are an auditor by trade. What comes natural to you may not be true for Internal Auditors who have the necessary skills for the position they were hired to do. Checklists are a necessity for those who do not live and breath "Audits". :agree:
 
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galcantar

#25
Re: Seeking: Internal Audit Checklists

In almost all of cases internal auditors have another duties ( belongs to all areas/ departments/ functions ) and eventhough the decided to response to your invitation they cant forget of his/ her basic duties...and sometimes they cant give their best because they are loaded with this basic things which they get his/ her salary... and this lead us to management support, etc.

In real life, we need (internal audits coordinator- management representative) to understand- live with it and develop a plan to comply appropiarly with this two situations.
 
M

M Greenaway

#26
Re: Seeking: Internal Audit Checklists

Perhaps a companies unwillingness to provide proper trained and competent audit resource is indicative of an underlying general lack of top management commitment to quality.

Yes I know we all have to live in the real world - hence my utter disillusionment !!

I cant imagine we would ever call on the temp in accounts to 'come and design this when you have a spare moment'.
 
#27
Re: Seeking: Internal Audit Checklists

M Greenaway said:
Perhaps a companies unwillingness to provide proper trained and competent audit resource is indicative of an underlying general lack of top management commitment to quality.

Yes I know we all have to live in the real world - hence my utter disillusionment !!

I cant imagine we would ever call on the temp in accounts to 'come and design this when you have a spare moment'.
On the other hand if they place all of their resources in non-billable activities, then there would be no billable activities, and hence, no business. As far as using temps, over here, they are used all of the time. There are many design houses that will rent a temp designer, or a temp anything else. Sometimes that is the best alternative. But rarely, do you use someone who does not have the expertise to perform the work (such as your "temp in accounts" designing stuff).

Management is being pulled in everywhich direction these days. Their customers want one thing, the government wants something else, the union still a third. No wonder they want the big bonuses.
 
C

cleverfox

#28
As true as most of the statements above are, the reality is that if your system is well designed to the standard you can create a checklist designed around that system in which your auditors look for the particulars to see if you are living within the documented system. This way also cuts back on differing interpretations also.

In my experience I have found that most audit training by registrars and their checklists are too generic to be useful to rookie internal auditors who have other duties. If you are going to pull people from other areas they do not have the time to get retrained each time they audit, or have to try and remember what exactly 5.6 is looking for for evidence of compliance. Instead point them in the direction and ask them to verify it is being done. This would also save on cost of sending them to an outside class or bringing someone in who will generally only cover generalities of the standard rather than cite specific examples of compliance and non-compliance.

I just suppose it depends on your companies environment and the level of willingness of the internal auditors to get imersed in the program.

-fox
 
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galcantar

#29
Cleverfox; that's is what I am trying here, one or two days before each audit I have an informal meeting with the auditor to check if he have everything needed to do it;so they clarify all doubts/requirements in advance.
 
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