Meeting the INTENT
From: ISO Standards Discussion
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:41:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Intent vs requirement /Marshall/Hankwitz
> This is just an observation, and was wondering why......
>
> Many times while reading some of the email on this list,
> I see things like ".... meeting the intent of 4.8,..." etc.,
> instead of.... meeting the requirement of 4.8.... (snip)
> Why are folks using the word intent and not requirement?
Art,
I would guess because the "requirement" is words, and "intent" is what's behind the words. All too often, users read and use the words without having a clue as to what the words are saying, or think they say something that just isn't true.
As an example, ISO 9001:1994 4.1.2.1 Responsibility and authority states, "The responsibility, authority, and the interrelation of personnel who manage, perform, and verify work affecting quality shall be defined and documented..." You have no idea how many people insist that this mandates the creation of an Organizational Chart.
I often see the same thing when people reference Deming's 14 points. They rattle off a point as a example to help make their point, and it's obvious they haven't a clue about the point being made. It's clear they never took the time to read the book and are therefore operating on misguided assumption.
John
------------------------
From: ISO Standards Discussion
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:43:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Intent vs requirement /Marshall/Arbuckle
Art brings up a good question, and since I have probably used both words as much as anybody else, I suppose I ought to explain my "intent."
The standard defines requirements, which are things that must be done. It does not define "how" to do them; (thank heavens!) that is left up to the organization to figure out. In many cases, the requirements can be met in a number of ways, depending on the outcome that best serves the organization. That is the "intent" of the requirement.
When I refer to "intent" I am speaking in terms of what is best for the business in meeting the requirement itself. I accept that "intent" is always up for interpretation by others and believe that one organization's reading of "intent" may be different from another's. That is what makes the world go round. I believe the standard gives us the right to "interpret" the requirements in the Introduction itself, "The design and implementation of a quality system will be influenced by the varying needs of an organization, its particular objectives, the products and services supplied and the processes and specific practices employed." Just like everything else, then, "Reality is nothing more than the perception of the masses." Substitute "Intent" for Reality.
Donald
----------------------
From: ISO Standards Discussion
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:45:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Intent vs requirement /Marshall/Humphries
Art,
The history of ISO9000 is from a very specific industry: defence engineering contracting. If one simply applies the strict requirements (or even worse, the normal interpretations from that industry) to other industries, one ends up a bureaucratic nightmare, irrelevant to the organisation or to the needs of its customers - hence not conforming to ISO9000!
Therefore, one has to use a little wisdom and insight to understand what ISO9000 is trying to achieve, and work out how, in a normal "other" industry environment, one is going to achieve the same ends.
This is improved in the Y2K DIS, but not completely eliminated.
Best Regards
Edwin
--------------------
From: ISO Standards Discussion
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:49:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Intent vs requirement /Marshall/Kozenko
Art inquired:
"Why are folks using the word intent and not requirement?"
Everywhere I've seen "intent" used in a post, it's been to explain this nuance: that the strict interpretation and application of a stated requirement just does not make good business sense.
David
From: ISO Standards Discussion
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:41:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Intent vs requirement /Marshall/Hankwitz
> This is just an observation, and was wondering why......
>
> Many times while reading some of the email on this list,
> I see things like ".... meeting the intent of 4.8,..." etc.,
> instead of.... meeting the requirement of 4.8.... (snip)
> Why are folks using the word intent and not requirement?
Art,
I would guess because the "requirement" is words, and "intent" is what's behind the words. All too often, users read and use the words without having a clue as to what the words are saying, or think they say something that just isn't true.
As an example, ISO 9001:1994 4.1.2.1 Responsibility and authority states, "The responsibility, authority, and the interrelation of personnel who manage, perform, and verify work affecting quality shall be defined and documented..." You have no idea how many people insist that this mandates the creation of an Organizational Chart.
I often see the same thing when people reference Deming's 14 points. They rattle off a point as a example to help make their point, and it's obvious they haven't a clue about the point being made. It's clear they never took the time to read the book and are therefore operating on misguided assumption.
John
------------------------
From: ISO Standards Discussion
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:43:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Intent vs requirement /Marshall/Arbuckle
Art brings up a good question, and since I have probably used both words as much as anybody else, I suppose I ought to explain my "intent."
The standard defines requirements, which are things that must be done. It does not define "how" to do them; (thank heavens!) that is left up to the organization to figure out. In many cases, the requirements can be met in a number of ways, depending on the outcome that best serves the organization. That is the "intent" of the requirement.
When I refer to "intent" I am speaking in terms of what is best for the business in meeting the requirement itself. I accept that "intent" is always up for interpretation by others and believe that one organization's reading of "intent" may be different from another's. That is what makes the world go round. I believe the standard gives us the right to "interpret" the requirements in the Introduction itself, "The design and implementation of a quality system will be influenced by the varying needs of an organization, its particular objectives, the products and services supplied and the processes and specific practices employed." Just like everything else, then, "Reality is nothing more than the perception of the masses." Substitute "Intent" for Reality.
Donald
----------------------
From: ISO Standards Discussion
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:45:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Intent vs requirement /Marshall/Humphries
Art,
The history of ISO9000 is from a very specific industry: defence engineering contracting. If one simply applies the strict requirements (or even worse, the normal interpretations from that industry) to other industries, one ends up a bureaucratic nightmare, irrelevant to the organisation or to the needs of its customers - hence not conforming to ISO9000!
Therefore, one has to use a little wisdom and insight to understand what ISO9000 is trying to achieve, and work out how, in a normal "other" industry environment, one is going to achieve the same ends.
This is improved in the Y2K DIS, but not completely eliminated.
Best Regards
Edwin
--------------------
From: ISO Standards Discussion
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:49:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Intent vs requirement /Marshall/Kozenko
Art inquired:
"Why are folks using the word intent and not requirement?"
Everywhere I've seen "intent" used in a post, it's been to explain this nuance: that the strict interpretation and application of a stated requirement just does not make good business sense.
David