ISO 9001 Qualified Auditor and Internal TS Auditor Requirements

[Hsoleimanpour]

"The 2009 edition results from the amendment of ISO/TS 16949:2002 to ensure its compatibility with the requirements of ISO 9001:2008, Quality management systems – Requirements. There are no essential changes to the technical requirements. The modifications relate mainly to the management requirements in the document to reflect the content of ISO 9001:2008, and those that are intended to improve consistency with the environmental management system standard, ISO 14001:2004"
http://www.iso.org/iso/pressrelease.htm?refid=Ref1234

 

[howste]

Hi Hsoleimanpour, welcome to the Cove!

As a certified ISO/TS 16949 lead auditor, I follow these steps (one by one) for qualification of an internal auditor...

I'm having a hard time understanding the context of this and some other comments you've made. Please help me to understand. You state that you are a "certified ISO/TS 16949 lead auditor" but you don't state who you are certified by. Are you a certified 3rd party (IATF) auditor, or did you pass a public ISO/TS 16949 class? It's also unclear if your expectations are what you would expect during a a certification body audit, an internal audit, or from your position within an organization (such as a quality manager). Some clarification please?

 

[brahmaiah]

The response for this is no, because ISO/TS 16949 has additional clauses included in the standard that ISO 9001 does not foreseen.
8.2.2.5 refers to "qualification" and only a recognized external body can ascertain the competence of an internal auditor.
If the internal auditor passes an examination after attending a dedicated a 32/40 hrs training ( held by above mentioned external body at national level all over the world) , then he can be considered as "qualified" with a certificate/ diploma which witnesses the achievement.
So all the personnel conducting internal audits vs ISO/TS have to attend it: "qualification" is something released by an external recognized body and even if there is an internal training held by a qualified guy on ISO/TS towards trainees , this is not sufficient for this purpose.

Except the last sentence, I agree with above opinion.There is no clause in TS 16949 barring an internal person who holds a TS internal audit certificate training others in the company.
Can you please quote the relevent clause if I AM WRONG.
V.J.BRAHMAIAH

 

[Hsoleimanpour]

Dear howste

I ma new here!

I passed a 3rd party auditor training course held by SMMT in Mumbai and I have worked for Moody international.

All statement before are from my position as 3rd party auditor.

Those statemnet about qualification reflects criteria (not requirements) which we follow during audit when auditing the qualification of an internal auditor.

 

[Stijloor]

Dear howste

I ma new here!

I passed a 3rd party auditor training course held by SMMT in Mumbai and I have worked for Moody international.

All statement before are from my position as 3rd party auditor.

Those statemnet about qualification reflects criteria (not requirements) which we follow during audit when auditing the qualification of an internal auditor.

What happens if the audit (objective) evidence shows that the "criteria" are not met?

Stijloor.

 

[Hsoleimanpour]

It depends on the evidences

If the evidence show that there is no effective internal audit process it is a NC.

All criteria which we follow according to VDA-QMC are focusing on the effectiveness of internal audit not to forcing the company to send employees to a course.

for satge 1 audit it is essential for the company to have adequate number on qualified auditors (to ensure independency of auditor) and before meeting this requiremenst, certification audit will no conducted.

 

[db]

Those statemnet about qualification reflects criteria (not requirements) which we follow during audit when auditing the qualification of an internal auditor.

Now, this might be a language thing, but to me, a nonconformity exists when the objective evidence does not match the audit criteria. In your wording, you say criteria is not the same as requirement, but in the context of auditing, I see them as one and the same.

 

[Hsoleimanpour]

I agree with you about language matter.

There is a requirements in 8.2.2.5 which say internal auditor shall be qualified ... this technical specification (ISO/TS 16949). this is a requirements.

we follow some criteria about qualification to ensure that internal auditor is qualified or not. the criteria that we follow according to VDA to find qualification are those I stated before. If internal auditors in audit team meet one of those criteria + objective (I made a mistake in last post) evidences of their qualification in the last internal audit (using their qualification in a process approch audit), we can ensure that the requirements (8.2.2.5) has met.

Thanks again

 

[qusys]

In fact, there is no barrier for this in ISO TS, but in my opinion , this could not carry to a "qualification" from quality stand point.
Just for this reason, recognized bodies from IATF follow a precise scheme for qualification and this is the common ground to have internal auditors qualified.

Except the last sentence, I agree with above opinion.There is no clause in TS 16949 barring an internal person who holds a TS internal audit certificate training others in the company.
Can you please quote the relevent clause if I AM WRONG.
V.J.BRAHMAIAH

 

[howste]

In fact, there is no barrier for this in ISO TS, but in my opinion , this could not carry to a "qualification" from quality stand point.
Just for this reason, recognized bodies from IATF follow a precise scheme for qualification and this is the common ground to have internal auditors qualified.

The IATF scheme can't be the "common ground" for internal auditor qualification. IATF qualification is not available to most internal auditors. It's only available to certification body auditors.

Please let me know if I misunderstood your point...