ISO 9001 Registration Audit - How can I make this a more enriching experience?

C

cleverfox

#1
So, after a long and exhaustive day one (of two) of phase two audit, we came through with three minors. One for one uncontrolled doc, another for a file cabinet that had some old (maybe obsolete) P.O.'s, and another for no evidence that internal audits were discussed at the monthly management review meeting.

Day two promises to have at least one more that I am aware of. I only just got transition auditor training last week and we haven't been able to conduct an audit to the new standard using the "Process" approach. :bonk:

Let me add that I can not tell the difference in the process approach yet!!! I am not stupid, but it seems that 20 elements were boiled down to five and that is it! :frust:

The auditor we have is very confrontational and makes you feel inadequate. He is too busy pointing out what he doesn't like. My whole experience so far has been less than fair.

Oh well, I am sure that no matter how conforming something may be with the standard, he'll find something to tear into...

How can I make this a more enriching experience?
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
cleverfox said:
The auditor we have is very confrontational and makes you feel inadequate. He is too busy pointing out what he doesn't like. My whole experience so far has been less than fair.

Oh well, I am sure that no matter how conforming something may be with the standard, he'll find something to tear into...
Hold out... and wait for the summary. He may turn things inside out now and still give you a fair assessment in the end. You'll have to wait and see.

And hey: Good luck...:agree:

/Claes
 

Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
Hey cleverfox -

Sounds like you are doing all right so far! The first two minors sound like very easy fixes. Internal audits being input to management review is important - but again, sounds like an easy thing to correct.

Some auditors may seem abrasive or brusque the first time around simply because they are really absorbed in making sure they understand your organization's processes. Some are just not friendly. Whatever the case - Relax, and maintain your bearing - regardless of how people around you are behaving. :p

Post later how it went!!
 

gpainter

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
Who is your registrar? Let us know what s/he says at closing. Like was said may appear to be an a$$&*!% but may be fair in the end. Sounds like you are doing good in short time. :)
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#5
cleverfox said:
So, after a long and exhaustive day one (of two) of phase two audit, we came through with three minors. One for one uncontrolled doc, another for a file cabinet that had some old (maybe obsolete) P.O.'s, and another for no evidence that internal audits were discussed at the monthly management review meeting.

Day two promises to have at least one more that I am aware of. I only just got transition auditor training last week and we haven't been able to conduct an audit to the new standard using the "Process" approach.

Let me add that I can not tell the difference in the process approach yet!!! I am not stupid, but it seems that 20 elements were boiled down to five and that is it!

The auditor we have is very confrontational and makes you feel inadequate. He is too busy pointing out what he doesn't like. My whole experience so far has been less than fair.

...

How can I make this a more enriching experience?
Well, cleverfox, sounds like you're having quite the experience! :bigwave: All I can say is that I agree with Claes and Cari. Wait for the final summary.

His first three findings do sound rather easy to address. The fourth one that you're expecting today sounds a bit more cumbersome and could require some creative and quick work to address in a timely manner.

If he does have that finding, I'd be tempted to ask him how he would address such a finding if he received it. Ask for his input, make him feel "appreciated." Just as Claes started the thread on the ideal Auditor, maybe we should have one on the ideal Auditee? :vfunny: Your Auditor may be used to people arguing with him constantly and, having been in that boat before, it's a very frustrating position to be in. That does tend to put an Auditor on the defensive. Try to give him the benefit of the doubt. :)

As for the process approach and auditing to it, I do believe that there is a thread or two on that very subject. Yoo hoo....oh Claes???...you can probably locate them faster than I...
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#6
cleverfox said:
So, after a long and exhaustive day one (of two) of phase two audit, we came through with three minors. One for one uncontrolled doc, another for a file cabinet that had some old (maybe obsolete) P.O.'s, and another for no evidence that internal audits were discussed at the monthly management review meeting.

The auditor we have is very confrontational and makes you feel inadequate. He is too busy pointing out what he doesn't like. My whole experience so far has been less than fair.

How can I make this a more enriching experience?
Fox, Remember that no matter how many times you go through audits, most of us still get a case of adrenaline rush during the actual audit. Maintain, focus and breathe deeply! Things will look a lot different two days after the auditor leaves. Some auditors do seem confrontational, (and some are, for crying out loud!) but remember they are in a strange place, outnumbered by people who know their way around and are expected to assess a system they may not be familiar with. (of course, I usually forget all this good advice when I am the auditee!)

Anyway, it does not appear that you are in bad shape. I have to wonder what difference it makes that you have old PO's filed...were they not filled/complete, or is the problem that they ARE old? If they are just old, it shouldn't be a big deal unless you have stated that you will dispose of older files after a certain date.? One uncontrolled document does not constitute a breakdown of your system, it's a no-brainer. And, lastly, it seems like no matter how good your minutes/record keeping is for management review, there is something there that the auditor will say does not show some aspect as being reviewed, right? If you are like us, life moves quickly and you aren't going to hash out each of the input items for 3 hours. Chalk it up to continual improvement, and make sure it is better next time.

Just keep telling yourself, it will be over soon!:smokin:
 

Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
RCBeyette said:
...I'd be tempted to ask him how he would address such a finding if he received it. Ask for his input, make him feel "appreciated."...
Good Suggestion. Our auditor is a wealth of information. He is careful not to word things in a "consulting" manner, however, he is free to relate things he has seen in other organizations that might work for you.
 
R

Randy Stewart

#9
Hang In There

You're doing fine, don't sweat the small stuff.

Just remember, the auditor is looking for compliance, they're not trying to poke holes in your system. It's difficult at times not to take offense to some of the hits you take. If you have spent hours upon hours getting a system ready it's almost like the auditor is insulting your child.

What the folks have stated here I agree with. There have been times, while going through the audit, that you feel like you might as well turn in your resignation. But somehow, in the closing meeting, the dark clouds part and the sun shines bright. You just have to stay in the struggle.

Believe me, they do get easier. :biglaugh: :bonk:
 
C

cleverfox

#10
Results from audit

Thank you to gpainter, Randy, Cari, Steelmaiden, RCBeyette and Claes for all your supportive responses. I don't know why, but I always seem to stress over the little stuff during audits, I've been through this enough times to know better.

Claes, thanks for the link, but I must be really thick headed because even after going through the "Process Approach" third party audit with our registrar I still do not see a difference. Oh well, I will just grin and bear it. :) I mean I do know that Purchasing is a process and so on, its just that the actual conductance is still the same. I got an advance copy of the registrars checklist and it is set up the same as QS, maybe that's where my confusion is stemming from?

But we passed with only four minor nonconformances! :D And those were simply and easy fixes.

My stress is going...going....gone...well almost, I am still in Quality, and that will never entirely leave right. :rolleyes:

Thanks again.
 
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