ISO 9001 - Standard Documentation Template required?

K

kiwilass

My company is still decided on what the standard template will be for our documentation currently there are two styles in use although the content is pretty much the same (in terms of version numbers etc) difference one has our generic company logo which our marketing is looking to change and the other doesn't.

Our ISO auditor raised this as a non conformance. Whilst I understand it makes sense to have one template I cannot see any relating to this in the standars unless I am missing something?
 

harry

Trusted Information Resource
Welcome to the Cove.

Do you mean there are two different 'formats' for documents used at your place and the auditor is issuing an NC for this?

Check your document control procedure to see what it says. The 'traditional' document control procedure tends to commit one to a particular format thus leaving you with no rooms to wriggle.
 
K

kiwilass

Thanks. Yes two different formats and auditor raised a NC for this.

Darn was hoping I could get away without converting hundreds of documents. Thankfully we are implementing a new QMS software at work and standardizing procedures across our sites so there might not be that many to do.
 

rob73

looking for answers
Kiwilass
Against what clause did the auditor raise the non-conformance? could it be to do with the content/control rather than the format?
 
K

kiwilass

Clause raised was control of documentation. NC raised was that our Health and safety procedures were of a different format to other procedures and duplicated in many functions.

Basically the company's system in existance was to replicate manuals for each different divisions and key policys and procedures such as quality and health and safety were duplicated in each of the manuals. Control then became an issue as one version in one manual was update and not necessarily the others. In addition to some staff were creating their own versions and keeping them on their personal hard drives.

I haven't been with the company long and had already started prior to the audit to overcome this by implementing and training out a new QMS system giving ownership back to the relevant departments for maintaining their procedures and also having a central point for documentation and procedures to stop duplication. However this wasn't fully address it before the auditor came as have a few thousand documents (as a result of this duplication) to go through. Whilst I have since pretty much addressed the duplication but I still haven't overcome the format just yet and now need to go back to the auditor with an update of where I am at.

I have put a huge amount of time and effort in engaging our staff in order to get our system back on track. However in terms of the auditor I am concerned that they might not see it that way as some things I haven't managed to address.
 

Kales Veggie

People: The Vital Few
Clause raised was control of documentation. NC raised was that our Health and safety procedures were of a different format to other procedures and duplicated in many functions.

Basically the company's system in existance was to replicate manuals for each different divisions and key policys and procedures such as quality and health and safety were duplicated in each of the manuals. Control then became an issue as one version in one manual was update and not necessarily the others. In addition to some staff were creating their own versions and keeping them on their personal hard drives.

I haven't been with the company long and had already started prior to the audit to overcome this by implementing and training out a new QMS system giving ownership back to the relevant departments for maintaining their procedures and also having a central point for documentation and procedures to stop duplication. However this wasn't fully address it before the auditor came as have a few thousand documents (as a result of this duplication) to go through. Whilst I have since pretty much addressed the duplication but I still haven't overcome the format just yet and now need to go back to the auditor with an update of where I am at.

I have put a huge amount of time and effort in engaging our staff in order to get our system back on track. However in terms of the auditor I am concerned that they might not see it that way as some things I haven't managed to address.

4.2.3 is very clear about control for document required by the management system.

The standard does not say anywhere that the format must be the same and standardized. It would make sense to limit the number of formats for ease of use and training. In large organizations with distributed document control systems, different formats are pretty normal.

Now, if there are different versions of the same document or documents contradict, then there maybe a non conformance. It depends how the documents are written (e.g. scope)
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
Clause raised was control of documentation. NC raised was that our Health and safety procedures were of a different format to other procedures and duplicated in many functions.

Basically the company's system in existance was to replicate manuals for each different divisions and key policys and procedures such as quality and health and safety were duplicated in each of the manuals. Control then became an issue as one version in one manual was update and not necessarily the others. In addition to some staff were creating their own versions and keeping them on their personal hard drives.

I haven't been with the company long and had already started prior to the audit to overcome this by implementing and training out a new QMS system giving ownership back to the relevant departments for maintaining their procedures and also having a central point for documentation and procedures to stop duplication. However this wasn't fully address it before the auditor came as have a few thousand documents (as a result of this duplication) to go through. Whilst I have since pretty much addressed the duplication but I still haven't overcome the format just yet and now need to go back to the auditor with an update of where I am at.

I have put a huge amount of time and effort in engaging our staff in order to get our system back on track. However in terms of the auditor I am concerned that they might not see it that way as some things I haven't managed to address.

I would like to know which the evidences were to carry the auditor to write this ncn. He may be right if the fact of have different template caused problem in the system, otherwise it could an opportunity for improvement and highlight room for improvement in the efficiency of the documentation system of the organization. Besides, you are still work at fixing the documentation and he did not probably help you in raising the ncn, because you are aware onf the issue as well.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
You don't have to have any kind of format at all

Documents only need to be identifiable and be able to show revision status.

Changes to documents can be recorded on a separate record if you want, they don't even need to be on the doc themselves.

Your auditor is messed up.
 

insect warfare

QA=Question Authority
Trusted Information Resource
4.2.3 is very clear about control for document required by the management system.

The standard does not say anywhere that the format must be the same and standardized. It would make sense to limit the number of formats for ease of use and training. In large organizations with distributed document control systems, different formats are pretty normal.

Now, if there are different versions of the same document or documents contradict, then there maybe a non conformance. It depends how the documents are written (e.g. scope)

I agree with Kales. I also believe that the auditor did pick up on something here, but failed to cite the appropriate requirement, and in some way undermined his own NC.

Brian :rolleyes:
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
Thanks. Yes two different formats and auditor raised a NC for this.

Darn was hoping I could get away without converting hundreds of documents. Thankfully we are implementing a new QMS software at work and standardizing procedures across our sites so there might not be that many to do.

The question was, is there anything in your own document control requirements that specifies a particular format? If so, you need to either change the requirement or fulfill it. If not, you should challenge the NC finding because there is no requirement regarding formats in the standard.
 
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