ISO 9004 Managing for the sustained success of an organization - Update May 2017

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: ISO 9004:2009 - Managing for Sustainability – A Quality Management System Approac

I do not understand why so few people have read or use the thing.

It is very simple: there is no (credible) certification program associated with ISO 9004, as the standard is not certifiable. Just like the majority of the ISO 9000 family of documents, if you can't get certified against it, people tend to ignore it. Sad, but true.

 

[ChrissieO]

Re: ISO 9004:2009 - Managing for Sustainability – A Quality Management System Approac

It is very simple: there is no (credible) certification program associated with ISO 9004, as the standard is not certifiable. Just like the majority of the ISO 9000 family of documents, if you can't get certified against it, people tend to ignore it. Sad, but true.

Working toward the guidlines of 9004 has always been part of our strategic planning and we hada meeting only last week to discus our 4 year plan to work toward the guidlines.

Those who don't read/use the 9004 documents are usually the ones that have the biggest mountain to climb when the next version of 9001 is introduced

Cx

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: ISO 9004:2009 Managing for the sustained success of an organization -

ISO has released an ISO 9004:2009 Implementation Guidance Document.

See attached.

 

[howste]

Re: ISO 9004:2009 Managing for the sustained success of an organization -

Thanks for the link, Sidney.

I'm curious why TC 176 thinks that ISO 9004:2009 (which is a guidance document) needs to have a guidance document for it. Guidance on guidance? Does that mean the guidance wasn't written properly to begin with? I don't think so. The impression I got when I read it was that it was created as a freely distributable document they could use to raise awareness of the contents standard - more of a marketing tool.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: ISO 9004:2009 Managing for the sustained success of an organization -

I'm curious why TC 176 thinks that ISO 9004:2009 (which is a guidance document) needs to have a guidance document for it. Guidance on guidance?

Good point, but remember: before the IAF MD 5 document was released we had IAF Guidance documents on the application of ISO/IEC Guides 62 and 66.

The impression I got when I read it was that it was created as a freely distributable document they could use to raise awareness of the contents standard - more of a marketing tool.

Remember, some "high power" people in the TC 176 are on the record stating that the 2009 version of ISO 9004 would be the TC 176 last attempt to make the document a decently selling standard commercially attractive. A good ISO standard that gets no traction in the business world and does not generate revenue to ISO sooner or later will be in stage 90.99....

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: ISO 9004:2009 Managing for the sustained success of an organization -

From here...

ISO 9004, Quality management – Quality of an organization – Guidance to achieve sustained success, is currently under revision and has just reached Draft International Standard (DIS) stage, meaning that interested parties can submit feedback on the draft before its final publication in 2018.

The standard provides a framework based on a quality management approach, within which an organization can achieve ongoing success through identifying its strengths and weaknesses, and opportunities for improvements or change. It offers guidance for enhancing the overall quality of an organization by improving its maturity level, namely in terms of its strategy, leadership, resources and processes....

 

[howste]

Re: ISO 9004:2009 Managing for the sustained success of an organization -

Perhaps everyone will rush out to buy a copy of this version! I'm tempted to buy a DIS copy (at CHF 58) so I can be an early adopter.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: ISO 9004:2009 Managing for the sustained success of an organization -

Perhaps everyone will rush out to buy a copy of this version!

There. I fixed it for you.

 

[howste]

Re: ISO 9004:2009 Managing for the sustained success of an organization -

There. I fixed it for you.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: ISO 9004:2009 Managing for the sustained success of an organization - Update 2017

On a more serious note, the press release mentions

“While ISO 9001 focuses on providing confidence in the organization’s ability to produce consistent, conforming products and services, ISO 9004 aims to provide confidence in the organization itself and its long-term sustained success.

That's my biggest gripe with the 5[sup]th[/sup] Edition of 9001. In my estimation, the changes in the document, associated with the lack of clear, actionable direction on conformity assessment practices make 9001:2015 LESS LIKELY to provide the confidence mentioned above; especially to the MAJOR STAKEHOLDER of most organizations, the one that 9001 should be focusing on: the customers.

I gave a presentation on the ISO/TS 9002:2016 to a local ASQ Chapter in So-Cal recently, and spent half of the presentation elaborating on what, I believe, were the reasons for the TC 176 SC 2 to deliberately distance ISO's best selling standard ever from it's original intent, and, potentially, damaging it's adoption in a successful manner. I do believe there was a significant strategic blunder in the last round of the 9001 revision.

Time will tell...