ISO 9004 - Self assessment for system maturity - Where do you think you are?

C

ChrissieO

#1
Had chance to get my head round the new 9004 today and when reading throught the self assessment in Annex A. I wondered if anyone had carried this assessment out yet and how did you fare.

I have gone through it briefly today and to be honest I think we only come somewhere between 2 and 3. Loads to do then:mad:



Cxx
 
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Sidney Vianna

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Admin
#2
Re: ISO 9004 - self assessment for system maturity; where do you think you are?

I have gone through it briefly today and to be honest I think we only come somewhere between 2 and 3. Loads to do then
A typical problem for the VERY few organizations performing the self assessment exercise is the fact that it is done very briefly, without involvement of the process owners and top management. In order to be meaningful, the self assessment needs to be structured, formal and systematic. Otherwise, like many internal audits, it becomes a futile exercise with no value gained whatsoever. Also, let's keep in mind that the maturity model tells us that the same organization might have differing degrees of maturity amongst the different areas, functions, processes, etc...

 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Leader
Admin
#3
Had chance to get my head round the new 9004 today and when reading throught the self assessment in Annex A. I wondered if anyone had carried this assessment out yet and how did you fare.

I have gone through it briefly today and to be honest I think we only come somewhere between 2 and 3. Loads to do then:mad:



Cxx
How long has your organization been at this? It can take years and years for a system to mature.
 

automoto

Involved In Discussions
#4
Good point Sidney. I definitely agree with you. :yes:
In my opinion self assessment according to methodology defined by ISO 9004 is quite a challenge for most organizations. It definitely takes a lot of time to perform such assessment; therefore I think it is the best way to use step-by-step methodology, starting with key elements in particular organization.
I think that minor works is done with self assessment. Majority of work comes after the assessment, when we start with determinations and implementation of actions for improvements. Without actions assessment has no meaning.

I study standard thought the eyes of third party auditor. Does anyone have an ideas of how can we utilize standard at third party audits.

Regards,
Aleš
 

Stijloor

Leader
Super Moderator
#5
<snip>Does anyone have an ideas of how can we utilize standard at third party audits.

Regards,
Aleš
At third party audits, the auditor wants to see evidence of a continual improvement process. Using the assessment (before), implementing actions, and using the assessment again (after); you should be well on your way.

Stijloor.
 

automoto

Involved In Discussions
#6
At third party audits, the auditor wants to see evidence of a continual improvement process. Using the assessment (before), implementing actions, and using the assessment again (after); you should be well on your way.

Stijloor.
I agree. If some organization performs self assessment and implement actions then we can be sure that continual improvement process works.
I have in mind using of the other “requirements” of standards. There are a lot of “should” requirements in standard. Can auditor promote those requirements at third party audits?
 

Stijloor

Leader
Super Moderator
#7
I agree. If some organization performs self assessment and implement actions then we can be sure that continual improvement process works.
I have in mind using of the other “requirements” of standards. There are a lot of “should” requirements in standard. Can the auditor promote those requirements at third party audits?
Remember that ISO 9004 does not include requirements. Use of this document is optional. You do not even have to mention/include that document. The bottom line is that you have continual improvement activities and that you can show results. How you make that happen is your decision.

Stijloor.
 
C

ChrissieO

#8
Re: ISO 9004 - self assessment for system maturity; where do you think you are?

A typical problem for the VERY few organizations performing the self assessment exercise is the fact that it is done very briefly, without involvement of the process owners and top management. In order to be meaningful, the self assessment needs to be structured, formal and systematic. Otherwise, like many internal audits, it becomes a futile exercise with no value gained whatsoever. Also, let's keep in mind that the maturity model tells us that the same organization might have differing degrees of maturity amongst the different areas, functions, processes, etc...

We plan to do an in depth assessment in 1/4 2 of this year and plan the improvements over a period of 3 years.

I have already identified that we are far stronger in some areas than in others, but this will be evident when we do our full assessment. I think the key to the self assessment is being honest and maybe a little tough on yourself and not kid yourself you are doing it right as nothing will be gained by this.

Cx
 
C

ChrissieO

#9
How long has your organization been at this? It can take years and years for a system to mature.

Our QMS has been in place for over 15 years and is "mature" by 9001 standards, but we need to go that extra few miles to acheive a "mature" system by 9004 standards.

Cx
 
N

nealet01

#10
Re: ISO 9004 - self assessment for system maturity; where do you think you are?

We plan to do an in depth assessment in 1/4 2 of this year and plan the improvements over a period of 3 years.

I have already identified that we are far stronger in some areas than in others, but this will be evident when we do our full assessment. I think the key to the self assessment is being honest and maybe a little tough on yourself and not kid yourself you are doing it right as nothing will be gained by this.

Cx
I think that its absolutely right that the top management team should be engaged in this process. The plan I have for implementation involves each process owner carrying out the assessment individually alongside an evidense based audit carried out by myself. The results can then be compared and any wildly different results be analysed (this may highlight difficiencies in internal communications). Once baseline data is agreed the development plan can be initiated.
 
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