ISO/TS 16949:2000, Clause 7.4.1.2 ? What are you doing to foster supplier quality man

K

Kevin H

#1
ISO/TS 16949:2000, Clause 7.4.1.2 – What are you doing to foster supplier quality man

There have been several discussions on the Cove regarding the requirements for supplier quality management system development to include compliance with ISO/TS 16949 and registration to ISO 9001. I have not noticed one that lets us discuss the actions our organizations are taking to meet that requirement. I don’t mean exempting suppliers from the requirement because they are distributors and don’t add value to the purchased product. Nor do I mean sending a letter to your customers asking them to exempt xyz supplier from the requirement for supplier quality management system development. I’m particularly interested in the response from smaller companies, as we are a tier 2 supplier of bulk materials to the automotive industry with current employment of about 170 people spread over 3 manufacturing locations.

What we’ve done so far is ascertain the quality management system status of our suppliers, and send out a letter to our suppliers indicating that we are ISO/TS registered and requesting that they get registered to ISO 9001, and to let us know what their plans to do so are. I personally do not see that as doing supplier quality management development, but support the company line during our surveillance audits by our registrar. (I’m not the quality department manager.)

What we are receiving from our customers, the tier 1’s, is pretty much the same thing a letter/request to become ISO 9001:2000 registered and TS compliant, which I respond to with copies of our certification to both ISO 9001:2000 and ISO/TS 16949. Some of the larger customers add their supplier quality manual into the mix.

One activity that we haven’t done that comes to mind is to plan and host a seminar for our non-registered suppliers on developing and implementing an ISO 9001:2000 based quality management system. I’m not certain how much buy-in we’d get, but it would be a step in direction of true QMS development.

Are any Cove members doing anything innovative to foster quality management system development in their suppliers, especially smaller suppliers that you’d like to or are willing to tell us about?
 
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cncmarine

Quite Involved in Discussions
#2
I upgraded three suppliers for one AS 9100 project. I met with the State and the individual companies to get approval on ISO grants.
 
V

vanputten

#3
In my opinion, "Supplier Development" for most automotive manufacturers means threaten and make demands. The word "development" is a misnomer. When did the Big 3 in the US ever develop suppliers? Sure, they provided classes if we wanted to pay for them and travel to their location.

Kevn H - Your thoughts and actions on developing suppliers is admirable.

I am currently working with a small supplier (less than 10 employees) to expose them to ISO 9001, what it means, etc. This all came about becasue we like them as a suppliers but they didn't even know what ISO 9001:2000 was. I have met with them 3 times. We started with defining their tracability methods. Today I will be meeting with them to determine the costs for them to get ISO 9001 certified and whether it is worth it for them. If we determine it is not worth it, technically we have to disapprove them as a supplier due to the TS 16949 requirments. I guess we could ask all of our automotive customers for a waiver too. I have never done that.

All very interesting to me.

Regards, Dirk
 

bpritts

Involved - Posts
#4
vanputten said:
In my opinion, "Supplier Development" for most automotive manufacturers means threaten and make demands. The word "development" is a misnomer. When did the Big 3 in the US ever develop suppliers? Sure, they provided classes if we wanted to pay for them and travel to their location.

Dirk -- you forgot about wasting QA time by sending redundant questionnaires that repeat the QSA and/or TS16949. :bonk:


vanputten said:
I am currently working with a small supplier (less than 10 employees) to expose them to ISO 9001, what it means, etc. This all came about becasue we like them as a suppliers but they didn't even know what ISO 9001:2000 was. I have met with them 3 times. We started with defining their tracability methods. Today I will be meeting with them to determine the costs for them to get ISO 9001 certified and whether it is worth it for them. If we determine it is not worth it, technically we have to disapprove them as a supplier due to the TS 16949 requirments. I guess we could ask all of our automotive customers for a waiver too. I have never done that.

All very interesting to me.

Regards, Dirk
This sounds like supplier development to me.

Supplier development makes sense if there are real,
commercial and technical reasons for it. This would be true if your company is particularly strong in an area, and your suppliers can do a better job for you if you share your knowledge.

It's my opinion that for many "typical" suppliers (i.e. smaller than Delphi or Visteon), the Tier 1 is more of a "peer" than a "superior" with regard to their Tier 2's. Often the Tier 2's are bigger (e.g. the stamper who buys steel from a big steelmaker, or plastic molder buying resin from GE).

With that in mind, here are two ideas to consider.

#1. Benchmarking visits - Years ago, one of my clients was invited by another firm (who was both a competitor, customer, and supplier!) to do a plant floor benchmarking program. Either party could exclude proprietary areas. I think both sides profited from this. No big deal -- just a 1 day plant visit & tour for each site. Just relabel as "supplier development".

#2. Consultant program - As a consultant, I offer a supplier program to my clients at no charge, as a way to get referrals. My co. organizes a 1/2 day - 1 day program at the client (the Tier I) for the Tier II companies. We do some presentations, hold a plant tour, and have a lunch. If you don't use consultants for QA, there are probably other equipment, tool, or service suppliers you use who would love to do this for you at no charge.

There are often benefits when the suppliers come and see things in person... a surprising number of "ah hah"s when they see their products in process.
If nothing else, it has relationship benefits. Of course, some suppliers (smaller $ items, greater distance) will not find it cost-effective, but many suppliers will come.


With best regards,
Brad


p.s. -- at the risk of moving the thread to the consulting forum, contact me
off list if you are in Michigan, Northern Indiana or Northern Ohio and want
the consultant supplier development from us. We're always looking! bp
 
#5
vanputten said:
I am currently working with a small supplier (less than 10 employees) to expose them to ISO 9001, what it means, etc. This all came about becasue we like them as a suppliers but they didn't even know what ISO 9001:2000 was. I have met with them 3 times. We started with defining their tracability methods. Today I will be meeting with them to determine the costs for them to get ISO 9001 certified and whether it is worth it for them. If we determine it is not worth it, technically we have to disapprove them as a supplier due to the TS 16949 requirments. I guess we could ask all of our automotive customers for a waiver too. I have never done that.
I would never get rid of a supplier like this. It would seem to go against the intent. Get them compliant and dare your registrar to yank you around on it!

I like cncmarine's advice. If they are that good (and that small) consult for them for free (or in exchange for price breaks) and assist them with getting their state gov't to assist with registration costs.

See this post for what we are doing!
In addition, I am establishing a face to face, person to person, handshake relationship with the QA managers (or the "person responsible for quality" in the case of the 4 person shop) of those folks that are not ISO9001 compliant. You know, the old fashioned way to do business: go talk to the people (not the one hereafter known as "supplier") who make your parts and make sure that they REALLY understand what you REALLY need when you order part number ASAP to drawing PDQ Revision IDN.
 
Last edited:

Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
Brace yourself - this may be painful to read for some of you. The first sentence alone nearly caused my eyes to cross.

This is an actual letter I just received yesterday and is a perfect example of a waste of someone's time. It is word for word - I omitted the company name and the author's name. I want to point out that we do not make car parts; we repair or remake machine details (MRO). We repair ballscrews for this company for their machinery.


Attn: Quality Department

Company Name has recently been updating our quality system to perform a better quality of parts to our customers. We are utilizing our TS16949 Quality System to achieve this goal and in doing so, we are taking the time to write our suppliers and urge all of our suppliers to become certified to the TS16949 Quality System as well.

Although, this is not a requirement, just a request on our part that you become certified to the TS16949 Quality System. We are finding in businesses today more people are becoming TS16949 Certified and it has become a great benefit to their company. As always, thank you for being a quality supplier and if there are any questions please contact me at phone number.

Sincerly,

Author
Quality Department
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#8
Cari Spears said:
Brace yourself - this may be painful to read for some of you. The first sentence alone nearly caused my eyes to cross.

This is an actual letter I just received yesterday and is a perfect example of a waste of someone's time. It is word for word - I omitted the company name and the author's name. I want to point out that we do not make car parts; we repair or remake machine details (MRO). We repair ballscrews for this company for their machinery.


Attn: Quality Department

Company Name has recently been updating our quality system to perform a better quality of parts to our customers. We are utilizing our TS16949 Quality System to achieve this goal and in doing so, we are taking the time to write our suppliers and urge all of our suppliers to become certified to the TS16949 Quality System as well.

Although, this is not a requirement, just a request on our part that you become certified to the TS16949 Quality System. We are finding in businesses today more people are becoming TS16949 Certified and it has become a great benefit to their company. As always, thank you for being a quality supplier and if there are any questions please contact me at phone number.

Sincerly,

Author
Quality Department
Thanks, Cari. I've been up nights wondering what I should do to perform a better quality of parts. Now I know.
 
K

Kevin H

#9
Thanks everyone for the replies so far.:)

Cari - I can feel your pain - I could probably paper the wall of my small office with similar letters, especially if I added the supplier quality manuals that often accompany them. The requests seem to be more frequent recently as the time for QS is winding down. Luckily, we are ISO/TS registered so many can be answered with a form letter/fax indicating that we are already registered, here is a copy of our the documents certifying our registration, if you have any other questions please contact me via telephone,fax, or email at the relevant numbers.

The quality manuals on the other hand take significant time and resources to review and agree/send counterproposals to.
 
R

Randy Stewart

#10
Cari, here's one for you.
. . . . . Therefore, we hae made the decision to require quality management system certification for our suppliers as detailed below:
Suppliers in our automotive original equipment manufacturer (OEM) production and/or service part supply chain:
Must achieve certification to ISO/TS 16949:2002 as a condition of doing business with _____ _____.
Our deadline for automotive OEM suppliers to be certified to ISO/TS 16949:2002 is August 1, 2006.
Suppliers in our non-OEM automotive (aftermarket) and non-automotive part supply chains:
Not required to achieve certification at this time. However, the GSCM group will be giving preference to those suppliers that take the initiative to register. . . .
This portion really got me.
_____ ____ has contracted ___ as our third party registration body. As a convenience to suppliers who have not started the registration process, we are providing information to contact ___. ___ has offered to provide reduced rates to ___ ___ suppliers.

What a crock!:mad:
 
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