ISO/TS 16949:2002 Audit Confusion

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#21
Such a good discussion. :applause:

I would like to stress three things.

1) Your company is getting registered, not the consultant and not any other one or group of people. It's all about a system and its function. It needs to fit the company's size, product, customers, culture and vision for growth all at once. That means a QA manual, a set of flow charts and work instructions could do the process documentation job pretty nicely. Records don't have to be as hard as we often make them, either.

2) Your consultant will be there and gone. Unless his contract is partly based on your successful registration, he may not feel like it's the best thing to make documentation simple. I do not want to defame consultants, the point I am trying to make is that after your consultant is gone the need to keep registered is on your group's shoulders. Why make an ill fitting garment if you're going to wear it every day?

3) Nothing says your company needs to do everything the consultant directs, or even recommends. You, the QA Professional, can mediate between the extremes of too much and not enough by acting as your company's agent. As short a time as you've been there, chances are good you know the place better than the consultant does. If that's the case you can say "It would be helpful to us if we could make this easier to maintain - how about XYZ?" The focus should always be what would work best for the company and its robust, functioning systems, customer satisfaction etc. The message should always be delivered in those terms. In this way you can probably avoid the head butting and misunderstandings.

All that said, I am certain that hiring a well-fitting consultant can be very difficult. We tend to find out all these things after time has elapsed - this stuff is hard to get insight on during the sales presentation! A good consultant should come armed with an array of tools to select from. This fellow sounds like he might have a small tool box. Look around on this site and you may find plenty of tools to help build the system you need.

I hope this helps!
 
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CliffK

#22
Such a good discussion. :applause:

I would like to stress three things.

1) Your company is getting registered, not the consultant and not any other one or group of people. It's all about a system and its function. It needs to fit the company's size, product, customers, culture and vision for growth all at once. That means a QA manual, a set of flow charts and work instructions could do the process documentation job pretty nicely. Records don't have to be as hard as we often make them, either.
Exactly. Also there's no need to create a tight nest of interlocking document references.
2) Your consultant will be there and gone. Unless his contract is partly based on your successful registration, he may not feel like it's the best thing to make documentation simple.
You absolutely have to have a closeout payment based on registration. If the client seems serious and the initial sizing reveals no waiting bear traps, I'll bid the thing as a fixed price job. Approximately 20% of the total payout hangs on a successful registration audit. Of course I protect myself from various kinds of client abuse such as repeated do-overs or foot dragging, but that's a different topic.
I do not want to defame consultants, the point I am trying to make is that after your consultant is gone the need to keep registered is on your group's shoulders. Why make an ill fitting garment if you're going to wear it every day?
As a practitioner I feel safe in saying that some in the field are self-defaming.:lol:

Get references, check references.

3) Nothing says your company needs to do everything the consultant directs, or even recommends. You, the QA Professional, can mediate between the extremes of too much and not enough by acting as your company's agent. As short a time as you've been there, chances are good you know the place better than the consultant does. If that's the case you can say "It would be helpful to us if we could make this easier to maintain - how about XYZ?" The focus should always be what would work best for the company and its robust, functioning systems, customer satisfaction etc. The message should always be delivered in those terms. In this way you can probably avoid the head butting and misunderstandings.
If you elect not to do things the consultant's way, the most (s)he should do is inform you of the possible consequences of your action.

Of course I have been known to use the broken record technique when the client is bent on doing something completely foolish.

All that said, I am certain that hiring a well-fitting consultant can be very difficult. We tend to find out all these things after time has elapsed - this stuff is hard to get insight on during the sales presentation! A good consultant should come armed with an array of tools to select from. This fellow sounds like he might have a small tool box. Look around on this site and you may find plenty of tools to help build the system you need.

I hope this helps!
At the risk of boring the reader: get references, check references.
 
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