ISO/TS 16949:2002 Documentation Structure

[paulnguyen]

Hi,

I am in transition from the QS to the TS.
Being familiar with the "element approach" from the QS, I am thinking of writing the system procedures using the TS sub-clauses as "elements" (ie. 4.1, 4.2, etc.) plus the determined processes.

It sounds like ..... too many!

If anyone has a better idea, please help.

Paul N.

 

[Tom W]

I am also working on this "conversion" from QS to TS. But instead of renumbering our entire system, I an thinking of ensuring that the TS requirements are covered in our current documnetation with the numbering staying the same as QS element approach. Over time we might create a paralell system that would only become offical when we are ready to swap them out. The current QS format to the elements should work, just make sure you are covered with a cross reference from TS to QS or other similar document that can help during audits.

I have started to revise policies and procedures to include both QS and TS requirements for this transition. We are slowly changing them. When we are ready to make the switch we could review one last time to ensure that none of the QS traps are left, were TS eliminates them.

How long until you want to drop QS and go with TS? You might have time to create the paralell system, then swap them out when you are ready. Could be alot of work, but might be worth it in the end. Since you are already QS the impact to the system would not be that great, infact the biggest change would obviously be the structure of the documents. The meat of the system should still be basically intact.

 

[paulnguyen]

Thanks, Tom.

I am leaning towards the long way, parallel system since the QS is still accepted by the Big Three.

You've just hit the right key, "make sure you are covered". That opens a shorten path for me. I don't have to be strictly stick to the sub-clause, just "make sure you are covered".

Thanks again.

 

[Al Dyer]

Call me and I will write it all for you if you want!!!!



1-810-245-3877
Al Dyer

 

[Sam]

We will use our transition from QS to TS to streamline our existing QS system. We presently have two binders,one for QM and one for QP's, issued to twenty people. I plan to reduce that to one manual issued to six people. And to make matters better there are only seven "documented procedures" required by TS.
Although TS is plagued with some of the interpretation problems of QS, I still think it is a step in the right direction.

 

[paulnguyen]

Thanks Sam, for the info.

Let's talk about the required procedures.

IMO, there are more than 7:

Six from the ISO (ISO/TC 176/SC 2/N 525R): 4.2.3, 4.2.4, 8.2.2, 8.3, 8.5.2 and 8.5.3.

From TS:
- 6.2.2.2 (clearly said so)
- 7.3.6.3 (said "approval procedure")
- 7.6.3.1 (said "laboratory procedures")

Althought for the last two procedures, the standard did not mention "documented" but I think they are required to be exist in our QMS.

What do you think?

Regards,

Paul N.

 

[Sam]

The seven specific documented procedures that you list are the only ones that are required. Are other procedures required? That depends on our method of implementation.
The standard gives us the opportunity to decribe our process as we see fit for our operatrion.
They can br describrd as follows:
Written - Described in a step - by - step format,
Flow chart - Any type of flow charting,i.e., manual or electronic,
process mapping - an extension of flow charting either manual or electronic.
What ever we develop will need to be treated as a controlled document, refrer to 4.2.1d.