ISO/TS 16949:2009 Internal Audit Requirements - Your Interpretation

What does TS-16949 require for internal audit frequencies and schedules:

  • All processes must be audited at least once in any 12 month period (annually)

    Votes: 19 57.6%
  • An audit schedule must be maintained & updated annually. There is not a minimum audit frequency.

    Votes: 12 36.4%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 2 6.1%

  • Total voters
    33

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#11
Re: TS Internal Audit Requirements - Your Interpretation

8.2.2.4 Internal Audit Plans, you can debate it, but I always see that Internal audit as good media to evaluate effectiveness my system, Our Internal Audit schedule always considers problem internal or external such as claim raise, reject internal or other problem, so we usually use internal audit to investigate or follow up corrective action.
Clausal 8.2.2.4 say Internal audit is scheduled annually, can we accept that if problem always happen in our production line or our claim raise?
Look at the second paragraph in 8.2.2.4 which states: "When internal/external nonconformities or customer complaints occur, the audit frequency shall be increased appropriately."

Stijloor.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#12
IMHO and to frank, if audits were correctly scheduled - that is to say on 'status and importance' (or risk and impact) we'd not have this type of debate...
My other opinion is that to increase audit frequency in response to problems is actually encompassed in the 'status and importance' requirements, but many/most people don't know that (and I suspect that as a result, it had to be spelled out...)
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#13
IMHO and to frank, if audits were correctly scheduled - that is to say on 'status and importance' (or risk and impact) we'd not have this type of debate...
My other opinion is that to increase audit frequency in response to problems is actually encompassed in the 'status and importance' requirements, but many/most people don't know that (and I suspect that as a result, it had to be spelled out...)
Can't be clear enough...;)

I get a lot of blank stares when I inquire about the logic and reasoning behind the internal audit schedule....

Stijloor.
 
D
#14
I'm confused. Why is there is a need for interpretation in the first place. If I remember correctly, and it's been several years, the governing body for TS 16949 has issued santioned interpretations directed at these types of situations.
Maybe we should go the source. Just my :2cents:

:bigwave:
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#15
I'm confused. Why is there is a need for interpretation in the first place. If I remember correctly, and it's been several years, the governing body for TS 16949 has issued sanctioned interpretations directed at these types of situations.
Maybe we should go the source. Just my :2cents:

:bigwave:
Doug,

The number of Sanctioned Interpretations (SI's) and Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ's) is very few.

There is not a formal interpretation for each clause.

The interpretation of the "Rules, 3rd Edition" is more involved.

Stijloor.
 
D
#16
Thanks. Now I seem to recall that was the case.
So I guess at the end of the day, the CB's and Consultants should be on the same page.
I was taught to audit all cutomer oriented processes annually and to visit the support processes as part of the process approach audit style. And of couse there were additional audits based on internal needs or customer request. Our QMS was audited by corporate auditors from another facility. Process audits, product audits and dock audits. It was a rather large undertaking but proved quite useful.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#17
Can't be clear enough...;)

I get a lot of blank stares when I inquire about the logic and reasoning behind the internal audit schedule....

Stijloor.

I would guess you could "get a lot of blank stares when I inquire about the logic and reasoning behind" any number of things related to ISO...:cool:
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#20
I'm in a debate with my registrar over the following clause of TS-16949:

8.2.2.4 Internal Audit Plans
Internal audits shall cover all quality management related processes, activities and shifts, and shall be scheduled according to an annual plan.

Their view: All processes must have been audited at least once in the last 12 month period.

My view: An audit PLAN must be maintained and updated at least annually. Processes do NOT have to be audited once in any 12 month period.

I'll hold off posting my reasoning until I get some input, as to not taint the poll.

(Edit: I probably should have used Plan instead of Schedule in the poll, so consider them the same thing since I can't seem to edit that.)
Tom,

Go the horse's mouth.

Contact the IAOB (IATF):

Contact: Dale Hammer
26200 Lahser Road, Suite 320
Southfield Michigan 48033 USA
Tel : 1 248 799 3939
Fax : 1 248 799 3943
E-mail : [email protected]
Site : www.iatfglobaloversight.org

:topic: I don't know if you knew or not but AIAG and IAOB/IATF live in the same house...:)

Good luck!
 
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