ISO/TS 16949:2009 Internal Audit Requirements - Your Interpretation

What does TS-16949 require for internal audit frequencies and schedules:

  • All processes must be audited at least once in any 12 month period (annually)

    Votes: 19 57.6%
  • An audit schedule must be maintained & updated annually. There is not a minimum audit frequency.

    Votes: 12 36.4%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 2 6.1%

  • Total voters
    33

bpritts

Involved - Posts
#21
I would tend to agree with the interpretation that the plan must be annual, but not necessarily including all processes. Be cautious, though; at least one CSR (Ford) specifically requires an annual audit of each process. (Ford CSR 4.39).

You could argue (if you don't serve Ford) that Ford must think that ISO TS 16949 doesn't require annual audit of each process... or they wouldn't have gone out of their way to create a CSR.

Brad
 
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B

Bill Mitchell

#22
Irrespective of the interpretation of the clause, I think you might be on shaky ground if you contend that there are QMS processes that would not benefit from at least a single annual audit. Nonetheless, if you're confident in your position and can support it with reasonable evidence, you might want to reply to the "technical specialist" that your audits are performed in accordance with an annual schedule, putting the ball back in his court, where it belongs at this point.
I agree with this comment "Irrespective of the interpretation of the clause, I think you might be on shaky ground if you contend that there are QMS processes that would not benefit from at least a single annual audit". Are we not striving for continious improvement. Is this not one of the purposes of Internal Auditing.

Even if your right, which you may be you will be reducing the effectiveness of your system.
 
Likes: db
#23
I would tend to agree with the interpretation that the plan must be annual, but not necessarily including all processes. Be cautious, though; at least one CSR (Ford) specifically requires an annual audit of each process. (Ford CSR 4.39).

You could argue (if you don't serve Ford) that Ford must think that ISO TS 16949 doesn't require annual audit of each process... or they wouldn't have gone out of their way to create a CSR.

Brad
I tend to treat these as simply a default position - remember that Chrysler had a similar requirement as part of QS-9000. I once asked for clarification from their (at the time) top person about the requirement and I'm still awaiting a reply...:notme::mg:
 
A

Antyp

#24
I choosed "An audit schedule must be maintained & updated annually. There is not a minimum audit frequency."

However i perform audits on annual basis, while among the corporation is internal rule agreed with CB to cover all processes in 3 years period.

But i am quite sure that soon i will have to replicate corporate approach even if i dont feel its really good idea.
Its value for all - even if audit finishes with 0 NCs - that auditor will visit all departments at least once per year. Treat it like kind of "PR" for quality system, as i try to present it.

Finally, the standard minimum, as i understand it, is like i voted
 
#25
However i perform audits on annual basis, while among the corporation is internal rule agreed with CB to cover all processes in 3 years period.
Would you tell us how this meets the requirement to audit based on status and importance? Many organizations are 'allowed' to do an audit once a year, but I can't see how this is sufficient...
 
A

Antyp

#26
Its accepted by our CB.
Regarding audit frequency, where is written it must be annual. Regarding status and importance, some processes corpartion audit annually (eg. production), regarding planning of audits upon results of previous, we can proof that less performing proceeses got increased frequency or are audited earlier (in first line), so those requirements are fulfilled. With 3 years basis and annual audit plan review You got clear evidence for that. ;)
Now, lets look at 3rd party adit scheme. Intitial (full system, all processes within organisation) than 2 control audits (that dont cover all processes), and again recertification.... it gives 3 years period. Naturally processes like production, corrective actions, internal audits, continues improvement, are audited with annual frequency, rest must fit in 3 years.

Personally as I stated I prefer annual frequency for full circle, but reasonably there is no direct requirement for that. Correct me please if I am wrong.
 
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Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#27
Its accepted by our CB.
Regarding audit frequency, where is written it must be annual. Regarding status and importance, some processes corpartion audit annually (eg. production), regarding planning of audits upon results of previous, we can proof that less performing proceeses got increased frequency or are audited earlier (in first line), so those requirements are fulfilled. With 3 years basis and annual audit plan review You got clear evidence for that. ;)
Now, lets look at 3rd party adit scheme. Intitial (full system, all processes within organisation) than 2 control audits (that dont cover all processes), and again recertification.... it gives 3 years period. Naturally processes like production, corrective actions, internal audits, continues improvement, are audited with annual frequency, rest must fit in 3 years.

Personally as I stated I prefer annual frequency for full circle, but reasonably there is no direct requirement for that. Correct me please if I am wrong.
You are doing it as I do for TS. When we get visited the CB auditors expect to see the main processes audited each year, but they accept that others are audited less often and they are happy to see the other processes are scheduled more often if they have received nonocnformances or have undergone significant change.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#28
Its accepted by our CB.
Regarding audit frequency, where is written it must be annual. Regarding status and importance, some processes corpartion audit annually (eg. production), regarding planning of audits upon results of previous, we can proof that less performing proceeses got increased frequency or are audited earlier (in first line), so those requirements are fulfilled. With 3 years basis and annual audit plan review You got clear evidence for that. ;)
Now, lets look at 3rd party adit scheme. Intitial (full system, all processes within organisation) than 2 control audits (that dont cover all processes), and again recertification.... it gives 3 years period. Naturally processes like production, corrective actions, internal audits, continues improvement, are audited with annual frequency, rest must fit in 3 years.

Personally as I stated I prefer annual frequency for full circle, but reasonably there is no direct requirement for that. Correct me please if I am wrong.
The TS standard does not require it to be a full system each year. But, many customers do. You are required to review the customer specific requirements and detial the requirements that apply. If one of your customers require this to be annual, then it would be a nonconformity, whether your CB accepts it or not.

The TS standard does require your internal audits to be effective. So, if I had a client that did the full cycle every three years, I would look closely to see if the audits are performed effectively, and if the audit results are effective. That could be the case, then I would accept it also.

I personally would also recommend that you look at your company performance metrics, to see if internal audits could help improve those things. Audits can focus on more than just compliance.
 

Raffy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#29
In our end, some processes were audited more than once depending on the result of Internal Audit Prioritization Matrix. We provide score for each status and importance criteria.
Raffy :cool:
 
#30
In our end, some processes were audited more than once depending on the result of Internal Audit Prioritization Matrix. We provide score for each status and importance criteria.
Raffy :cool:
Maybe you'd be able to share what criteria were used to do the prioritization?
 
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