ISO/TS 16949:2009 Quality Manual Requirements - Audit Nonconformance

[Howard Atkins]

Re: QM in ISO/TS 16949:2009

In my country. I never seen to which company to appeal the NC to CB.
Yes. I always see customer complint to CB about performance of auditor.

To help everyone else please appeal and complain.

 

[berseak]

Re: QM in ISO/TS 16949:2009

copy that

 

[harry]

While I agree with most of what was posted here by fellow Covers, I would not jump to conclusion without having a look at the manual in question.

1. Whether the manual meets requirements cannot be measured by the number of pages but by its contents.
2. Bearing in mind that this post originates from Thailand, I believe there are language issues - perhaps in the manual too.

 

[berseak]

While I agree with most of what was posted here by fellow Covers, I would not jump to conclusion without having a look at the manual in question.

1. Whether the manual meets requirements cannot be measured by the number of pages but by its contents.
2. Bearing in mind that this post originates from Thailand, I believe there are language issues - perhaps in the manual too.

My point is QM base on by requirements 4.2.2. I establish like this;

[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]

4.2.2 Quality manual​

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The organization shall establish and maintain a quality manual that includes
a) the scope of the quality management system, including details of and justification for any exclusions
(see 1.2), - yes, I do.
b) the documented procedures established for the quality management system, or reference to them, and - Yes, I do​

c) a description of the interaction between the processes of the quality management system. - yes , I do.


If comment are a,b and c unclear. I can accept this. But he need more detail in QM.

When I saw the QM of other company. They put requirements into QM. My question is this necessary ? If I refer to requirements. Audit can accept or not?

 

[Howard Atkins]

I know auditors that requires the QM to contain references to every clause of the standard, preferably with the clause number, in a different colour, this is really true!
This is how they work and expect every one to adhere to their wishes.
They work for a CB which has a partnership agreement with an accredited CB in a country where they are a virtual monopoly and acts as such!

We can say what it should be but sometimes the real world works in another manner.

When it comes down to it unfortunately the need for the certificate, especially TS, overrides the truth.

 

[jelly1921]

I got NC about QM. detial is "Company has Quality manual (QM-01)Rev.00 (1 Apr'10) and Procedure to control system but Quality manual should be add more topic to relate with Procedure.

When I interpretation of requirement 4.2.2 Quality Manual.

I estabish QM follow by this clause 4.2.2.

However, my QM have only 10 pages. At the same time other company more than 30 pages.

I don't like to copy QM from some company.
But finally I receive NC.

The RULES says :"the audit team shall not recommend to the client specific solutions to address NC". Therefore, this NC is invalid. You can make appeals to CB.

 

[LUV-d-4UM]

THis NC is wrong. I will definitely appeal if I get this NC.