SBS - The best value in QMS software

ISO/TS 16949 CBs & Auditors not following up on the schedules

Crimpshrine13

Involved In Discussions
#31
They can be furious if they want, but they've been doing it wrong and overcharging customers like you for years. You have a right to be angry too. I'm glad you're on the way to getting this resolved.
VDA had replied to me today, but I was astounded by the fact that this person at the technical team had provided a false information to VDA to defend himself. He had told them that our parent company had other locations they support, so that was why he counted more than just 2 people for audit days??? This is not even an excuse!!! :mad:

First, it's beyond surprising that the CB is telling a false information when confronted by VDA, and second, their excuse is not even correct either. If in fact what he said was 100% true and if we had several manufacturing sites, the CB is supposed to split the head count of support activity by the percentage of entire sites head count, so his logic is still going to be wrong because he cannot apply 100% head count of RL to one manufacturing location if there were multiple manufacturing locations.

I don't know what made of him to lie like that, but I replied to VDA that I couldn't understand why he would provide them such false information. Our parent company does have another subsidiary in China, but it's barely manufacturing, is not even ISO 9001 or ISO/TS 16949 certified, and they don't have any relationship with our location, and I don't understand why should they be considered in the scope ever (from the very beginning, I never mentioned that they were part of the scope).

On the other notes, VDA had told me that this person from technical team would contact me to explain 2 options from 5.5 of The Rule book, but he never contacted me. The customer relations manager who has been in touch with me sent me a audit schedule confirmation stating the audit dates and audit man-days to be 1.625 (1.5 days + 1 hour documentation review), which was originally on the contract. They apparently decided to stick with the original contract, probably for the fact because there would be a breach of contract if they didn't, and for the fact that I told them that if they were doing 2.5-day audit we were not going to pay for the extra 1 day because it wasn't on the contract and they should eat the cost, and for the fact that his decision of 2.5-day audit could not be justified in any way per The Rules book and because I contacted VDA. I don't think he can explain why 2.5-day audit is necessary based on The Rules book, and because of this reason, I don't anticipate him to contact me to explain and justify his position.

I am just plain very disappointed by the way this CB is handling this matter. The more I get into this, the more I get doubtful of their capability. We must finish this audit first, but we'll be on our way to a different CB. We had enough of this.

But, I am glad that I could come here to get advice from people. If this was prior to April, 2016, I could have been stuck with loads of problems... I'm glad that this forum came back and that I found solutions...

:thanks: :thanks: :thanks:
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#32
The customer relations manager who has been in touch with me sent me a audit schedule confirmation stating the audit dates and audit man-days to be 1.625 (1.5 days + 1 hour documentation review), which was originally on the contract. They apparently decided to stick with the original contract, probably for the fact because there would be a breach of contract if they didn't, and for the fact that I told them that if they were doing 2.5-day audit we were not going to pay for the extra 1 day because it wasn't on the contract and they should eat the cost, and for the fact that his decision of 2.5-day audit could not be justified in any way per The Rules book and because I contacted VDA.
Sounds like you got what you need for now. Good luck on a final resolution.
 
J

JerryJ

#33
I have found that appealing a NC or even complaining about it to the CB is more trouble than it is worth. All they do is jerk you around. You rarely get anywhere trying to dispute something.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#35
Why would this make a difference?
If you want the right answer, you should go to the subject matter expert. There are questions about whether the calculations were done correctly. The people in Technical should know the requirements. Someone in Sales may have an idea of the requirements, but may or may not actually know how to apply them correctly. In this case, it looks like both may be wrong... :notme:
 
J

JoShmo

#36
If you want the right answer, you should go to the subject matter expert. There are questions about whether the calculations were done correctly. The people in Technical should know the requirements. Someone in Sales may have an idea of the requirements, but may or may not actually know how to apply them correctly. In this case, it looks like both may be wrong... :notme:
So are you saying sales people aren't subject matter experts?
 

Crimpshrine13

Involved In Discussions
#37
So are you saying sales people aren't subject matter experts?
Sales people are not the expert in determining the days needed for the audit. It's the technical team that usually determines the days needed for the audit based on the scope and questionnaire answers provided by the client. Customer service (sales) may know some of the things, but they are not the ones that are ultimately determining these. They are just the customer service taking clients' words and throwing them at the technical team and technical team responds to the customer service and customer service returns to the clients. If the issue is more involved or something that cannot be resolved at this level, then the customer service usually sends the clients directly to the technical team to discuss. In our case, the technical team was unsatisfactorily responding to our questions at the second time, I had to take it to IAOB then to VDA, which at the end resolved the issue.
 
J

JoShmo

#38
Sales people are not the expert in determining the days needed for the audit. It's the technical team that usually determines the days needed for the audit based on the scope and questionnaire answers provided by the client. Customer service (sales) may know some of the things, but they are not the ones that are ultimately determining these. They are just the customer service taking clients' words and throwing them at the technical team and technical team responds to the customer service and customer service returns to the clients. If the issue is more involved or something that cannot be resolved at this level, then the customer service usually sends the clients directly to the technical team to discuss. In our case, the technical team was unsatisfactorily responding to our questions at the second time, I had to take it to IAOB then to VDA, which at the end resolved the issue.
What kind of expert do you need to read off of a chart like MD-5 or the TS rules? Is design in or out of scope? Doesn't seem to difficult to me...
 
J

JoShmo

#40
Sales people are not the expert in determining the days needed for the audit. It's the technical team that usually determines the days needed for the audit based on the scope and questionnaire answers provided by the client. Customer service (sales) may know some of the things, but they are not the ones that are ultimately determining these.
In fact, some registers the sales people ARE auditors (take a look at some of the smaller registers in the uSA for a start) Turns out the ones I've seen the boss is often an auditor AND does quotes etc. No "sales" people, as such, I guess. Weird...
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
B Updated IATF 16949 - Will IATF 16949 get revised when ISO 9001:202X is released? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
S Thoughts on managing ISO 9001, 13485, IATF 16949 and 17025 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 33
eule del ayre Documented Information - Periodic Review of Documents? IATF 16949:2016 / ISO 9001:2015 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 34
M Scope of Combined ISO 9001 and IATF 16949 QMS - Non-automotive customers ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
B Go Beyond ISO 9001 WITH IATF 16949 (January 28) [Paid] Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 1
Jimmy123 What is the difference between Error Proofing and Controls? ISO/IATF 16949 - Control Plans FMEA and Control Plans 16
M IATF 16949:2016 clause 8.4.2.3 - We don't have ISO 9001:2015 certificate IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 26
Crimpshrine13 IATF 16949 and ISO 9001 Remote Support - Pass Through Inventory IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 20
L Comparison matrix between IATF 16949:2016 to ISO 12207, ISO 9001 and Automotive SPICE IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
S Necessity of Legal Register to conform to ISO 9001, ISO 14001, IATF 16949 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
B IATF 16949 manufacturing cell in ISO 9001 factory? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
A ISO / IATF 16949 Requirements for Second Party Services IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
Coury Ferguson Report the CB... Certification Audit (IATF 16949) not to ISO 17021 Registrars and Notified Bodies 1
eule del ayre IATF 16949 / ISO 9001:2015 audit criteria IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 17
xfngrs How similar or different are IATF 16949 Vs. ISO 13485 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 0
GStough IATF 16949: 2016 and ISO 9001:2015 - How Similar Are They? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
Sidney Vianna IATF 16949:2016 still doesn't get 7.1.4 of ISO 9001:2015 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
J 3 Questions about Management Review - ISO 9001 and IATF 16949 Management Review Meetings and related Processes 4
QMMike ISO (in search of) IATF 16949 vs. TS 16949 changes summed up IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
C Upgrading from ISO 9001:2015 to IATF 16949:2016 - Anyone have a gap analysis tool? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
G Combining ISO 9001:2015 and IATF 16949:2016 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
F IATF 16949 - Cl. 8.4.2.3 - Which type of suppliers could be exempt of ISO 9001 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 16
M ISO TS 16949 Transfer to another CB (Certification Body) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
K Top Executive Management ISO 9001:2015 and IATF 16949 Overview IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
A ISO/TS 16949 - Sharing Certification Audit Report (NCR's) with the Customer IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
M ISO/TS16949 to IATF 16949:2016 Gap Analysis Questions IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
C Differences between IATF 16949:2016 vs ISO/TS 16949:2009 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
Anerol C IATF or ISO TS 16949 rules about Scope of QMS IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
Q Gap assessment on TL9000 with respect to ISO TS 16949 TL 9000 Telecommunications Standard and QuEST 3
Crimpshrine13 ISO/TS 16949 vs. ISO 9001 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
M Exclusions clause 7.3 - Our organization doesn?t design products - ISO/TS 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
M Risk analysis - ISO/TS 16949 clause 7.2.2.2 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
K Can anyone recommend some good book explaining ISO/TS 16949 requirements? Book, Video, Blog and Web Site Reviews and Recommendations 9
K What are the current ISO/ TS 16949 Semiconductor Manufacturer Requirements IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 12
C Special Characteristics - ISO/TS 16949 Clause 7.3.2.3 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
A We passed our ISO TS 16949 initial certification Covegratulations 3
F ISO/TS 16949 - Auditing supporting activities IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
F ISO/TS 16949 internal audit scope and annual plan Internal Auditing 2
S Quality Manual and ISO TS 16949 Standard IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
D Internal Audit Checklist for the latest ISO/TS 16949 standard IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
P I want to make a system audit in accordance with ISO / TS 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
F What is the scope for "Total Numbers of Employees on site" per ISO/TS 16949 ? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
M ISO/TS 16949 Rules about Commodities IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
R Corrective Action for Nonconformity in ISO/TS 16949 Recertification Audit IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
B Would compliance with ISO/TS 16949:2009 mean also compliance with ISO 9001:2015? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
J ISO/TS 16949:2009 Remote Support Provided By Sister Plants IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
M Using our parent company's ISO/TS 16949 Quality Manual IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
Crimpshrine13 Is VDA 6.3 required for Manufacturing Process Audit (ISO/TS 16949)? Manufacturing and Related Processes 5
M Control and Identification of ISO/TS 16949:2009 Documentation. ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
M QSB plus given by PSA and GM and ISO TS 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2

Similar threads

Top Bottom