ISO/TS 16949 certification questions

[Helmut Jilling]

I think one of the most difficult problems to resolve from described is this one:

I have no idea for 2 and 3...

I feel 1, 2, 3 in your examples are all clear - ABC is a remote support location for XYZ. Thus, they would have to be audited. If ABC is just a remote office for XYZ salespeople, but the real Sales process is controlled from XYZ, then I sometimes do not visit the remote Sales office. I would audit Sales at XYZ.

Example 4 is clearly not a remote support office, because it is not owned and controlled by XYZ.

This is the way I would divide it.

PS: One way to look at it would be to geographically move the remote location to a building next door to the manufcturing site. Would they now be merged into one operation, or would it still be a separate ownership? If they would merge, it is clearly a remote support location.

 

[Peters]

It wasn't my intent to stifle discussion. It seems that there are two options:

1. 
   If your CB is equivocating and not sure of the requirements, I don't see how they can consider themselves qualified to certify anything, and you'll either have to roll with whatever they say (and be prepared for other surprises) or get another CB.

Don't treat this so seriously.
It wasn't discussion in CB centre (I didn't ask them ). It was informal discussion between auditors in our domestic CB location.
Do you think - auditors have no doubt?

I feel 1, 2, 3 in your examples are all clear - ABC is a remote support location for XYZ. Thus, they would have to be audited. If ABC is just a remote office for XYZ salespeople, but the real Sales process is controlled from XYZ, then I sometimes do not visit the remote Sales office. I would audit Sales at XYZ.

PS: One way to look at it would be to geographically move the remote location to a building next door to the manufcturing site. Would they now be merged into one operation, or would it still be a separate ownership? If they would merge, it is clearly a remote support location.

Interesting thinking
Considered motivated opinion

About your PS - I think co-ownership of sales locations in different countries usually is caused by need to support sales by domestic firms. And separate ownership of different locations usually is caused only by legal concerns.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Don't treat this so seriously.

No one likes a good joke more than me.

It wasn't discussion in CB centre (I didn't ask them ). It was informal discussion between auditors in our domestic CB location.
Do you think - auditors have no doubt?

No, I think that auditors who are in doubt need to discuss ambiguities with their bosses, which is what I was recommending (seriously) before I found out it was a hypothetical question.

 

[Peters]

No, I think that auditors who are in doubt need to discuss ambiguities with their bosses, which is what I was recommending (seriously) before I found out it was a hypothetical question.

That's right
Sometimes bosses don't want to take the plunge. They say only IATF can take the plunge.