ISO/TS 16949 for a specific program - Aftermarket Parts

[Sebastian]

Re: Is it possible to get ISO/TS 16949 for a specific program?

Excuse me gentlemen,

What kind of "key indicators and performance trends for the previous 12 months, minimum" company which is already certified to ISO 9001, is not able to provide for Stage 1 TS audit?

From my point of view, small concerns are related only to "Rules" 6.5 c) - g), but you are able to manage it within few months (for sure less than 12 months) depends on your competence, management support (including $) and whole company commitment. Just find the gaps between ISO and TS and go ahead.

 

[Raffy]

Re: Is it possible to get ISO/TS 16949 for a specific program?

You have a customer that is ignorant on the IATF TS-16949 certification process. You must have at least 12 months of performance data before you can be certified to TS-16949. At best, you can get a letter of conformance by an IATF approved CB, before you've been operating the system for 12 months.

Hi Sidney,
I would like to ask with regard to the Letter of Conformance.
A Letter of Conformance was been issued to us three years ago and it says " This letter is valid from 31 October 2007 to 31 October 2010."
In reference to IATF Rules (2nd edition) - we have not purchased the 3rd edition yet... :
" Par. 2.4, " A letter of conformance may be issued by the certification body for a maximum of twelve months only in the following situations:
a) a new site exists.
After 12 months production, the certification process will proceed by the same certification body with a Readiness Review and initial audit with a maximum of 50% possible reduction in audit days.
b) an organization that can demonstrate it is on an active bid list for a customer requiring ISO/TS16949:2002 certification or compliance.
If a contract has not been issued within 12 month, the organization may re-apply for another letter of conformance.
- The letter of conformance may be issued by the certification body, after:
the organization is able to supply the information required for the Readiness Review including internal and external performance data
and one full cycle of internal audits and management review, but not twelve months of internal audits and performance data, and
- The relevant site has been audited to ISO/TS16949:2002 and found compliant."
We was audited to ISO/TS16949:2002 and found compliant.
Now my concern is:
1. What will happen to our Letter of Conformance Certificate after the expiration, will another certificate be issued to us?
2. Do we have to re-apply for the extension of the said "Letter of Conformance"? Please confirm.
3. Did we make a mistake for not applying for the conversion of the said letter of conformance to ISO/TS16949 certification, or the other way around, it was the CB who did not informed us that these LOC must be or can be upgraded to TS16949? Please advise.
Btw, we are third party subcontractors conducting test to semiconductors.
Thank you very much in advance for the usual prompt attention you will give this request.
Raffy

 

[Bill Mitchell]

Re: Is it possible to get ISO/TS 16949 for a specific program?

Raffy:

My understanding is that Letters of Conformance can only be issued once and expire after 1 year.
What you need to do is proceed with the registration process.
I would also suggest find a new CB and possibly filing a complaint with the IATF. They failed to meet their responsibilities.

 

[Howard Atkins]

Re: Is it possible to get ISO/TS 16949 for a specific program?

Raffy,
It is clear that the letter can only be for a year according to the 2nd and 3rd edition of the rules, the 3 years is meaningless.

A letter of conformance issue date is the date of the positive decision and is valid for a maximum period of twelve (12) months. The IATF logo and an IATF certificate number shall not appear on the letter of conformance; therefore no record of the audit and the letter of conformance shall be entered into the IATF database.
After twelve (12) months for the new site or if the client on an active bid list receives a contract from the customer requiring ISOrTS 16949:2002 certification, the certification process shall proceed by the same
certification body with a initial audit (stage 1 readiness review and stage 2) with a maximum reduction of 50% possible in audit days for the stage 2 audit.
If a contract from the customer requiring ISO/TS 16949:2002 certification has not been issued within 12 months the client may re-apply for another letter of conformance. No stage 1 readiness review is required and a maximum reduction of 50% in the stage 2 audit days is allowable.

Was this letter from a accredited certification body ?
ISO/TS 16949:2009 Certification Body Official List

 

[Raffy]

Hi Howard,
Thank you very much for enlightening me. It is so nice to understand it fully now. I get back to them and they said "that the certificate given to our company like other certificate in ISO which is valid in 3 years must be assessed annually to validate continuity, thus 3 years was reflected in our certificate. Because of the confusion that it creates on the letter of conformance and the certificate, they made a revision last year on the certificate itself to reflect that validity is only FOR ONE YEAR. In case client re-apply a new certificate will be issued after successful assessment."
I can say, indirectly they did not admit that they have a problem in putting the three years validity in our certificate for the Letter of Conformance. And i learned just this year that they made a change, IMHO, they should inform us that there are changes in their system and don't wait until the client ask for the clarifications.
The letter came from an accredited CB listed on the attached file.
Thank you very much for your help. I highly appreciate it.wait 2 secs to reload the image
Best regards,
Raffy

 

[Raffy]

Re: Is it possible to get ISO/TS 16949 for a specific program?

Hi Bill,
Thank you very much for the info.wait 2 secs to reload the image
Basically we will proceed to registration process (I think with the same CB), I cannot argue for the management decision, dunno if they will not change their mind once they compare it to other CB (in terms of cost), because some CB is cutting their certification fees in half just to get new clients.
best regards,
raffy

 

[Citizen Kane]

Hi !

After market is not included as and ts certification. As for your consultant, we have instead a good approach by not hiring a consultant company, but a coaching company on TS. So, after we had training, materials, lists, etc, we had with us 2 guy that were not only consulting, but also guiding us and perfoming a training-in-action. This was a great value added for us - the team's learning curve grew up fast and we were able to overview and understand all the aspects as we performed the task/actions. Also, the coachers were good prepared, and no aspect was skipped.

 

[Kashifbutty2k]

Re: Is it possible to get ISO/TS 16949 for a specific program?

Dear Howard, I really appreciate your efforts. I have one question:

We are manufacturing Speedometers for Honda. Is it allowed that I can go for the certification of Just Assembly Process.

We want to exclude Stamping and Molding Process of Speedometer Assembly being performed at same plant.

 

[Stijloor]

Re: Is it possible to get ISO/TS 16949 for a specific program?

Dear Howard, I really appreciate your efforts. I have one question:

We are manufacturing Speedometers for Honda. Is it allowed that I can go for the certification of Just Assembly Process.

We want to exclude Stamping and Molding Process of Speedometer Assembly being performed at same plant.

No! All processes associated with manufacturing and assembling speedometers must be included.

Nonautomotive activities can be excluded from the scope of certification.

Also, contact your Certification Body (CB).

Stijloor.