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Etienne v.d.Walt
Can anyone help me on what the ISO/TS16949 requires from the internal audits and shifts. What are the basic rules to ensuring that your internal audits cover shifts as well?
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D.Scott
8.2.2.4 Internal Audit Plans -
"Internal audits shall cover all quality management related processes, activities and shifts, and shall be scheduled to an annual plan."
When you set up your annual audit schedule you could include the off-shifts in the scheduling, or simply record the shift overlap on the audit report. There is no set rule on how you have to do this. QS-9000 required off-shift as well and I used a separate checklist for them. There is usually a lot less happening on the off-shifts here and not as much to review. The key is you should have something to show you include the off-shifts (schedules, audit reports, notations on the day shift audits etc.).
Dave
"Internal audits shall cover all quality management related processes, activities and shifts, and shall be scheduled to an annual plan."
When you set up your annual audit schedule you could include the off-shifts in the scheduling, or simply record the shift overlap on the audit report. There is no set rule on how you have to do this. QS-9000 required off-shift as well and I used a separate checklist for them. There is usually a lot less happening on the off-shifts here and not as much to review. The key is you should have something to show you include the off-shifts (schedules, audit reports, notations on the day shift audits etc.).
Dave
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Etienne v.d.Walt
Thanks for your comments. Another 2 questions:
1) If we have 25 processes, should they all be audited on all the shifts?
2) Are Saturday and Sunday (Day/Night- 12 hour shifts each) also considered shifts?
1) If we have 25 processes, should they all be audited on all the shifts?
2) Are Saturday and Sunday (Day/Night- 12 hour shifts each) also considered shifts?
T
Thor1
We were auditing all processes, all shifts. I got an interpretation from our registrar that you just have to cover every shift in the plant once. You don't have to cover every shift for every department. This saves us a lot of time.Etienne v.d.Walt said:
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db
You have to realize the reason for the every shift requirement is to ensure you are consistently applying the process rules and controls. We all know how, when anything bad happens, it is always the “off-shift”. I would use the same rules for determining audit scope and frequency for all of my shifts. Don’t treat any one shift differently than the others (except of course when a particular process doesn’t operate across all shifts).
Let them come to you
If your shifts rotate, you can just audit them when they come around to days....
This meets the letter of the TS law, but violates its spirit. The intent is to actually see what is happening at 2 in the morning! When I was younger, I was keen on things like this, but now sleep is a thing I like.
Our shifts rotate, so we just record the shift letter and over time we "cover all shifts"
Our registrar accepts this for our internal audit, but they actually start really early (5:00 AM) to see what is happening on nights for their TS audits.
Etienne v.d.Walt said:
If your shifts rotate, you can just audit them when they come around to days....
This meets the letter of the TS law, but violates its spirit. The intent is to actually see what is happening at 2 in the morning! When I was younger, I was keen on things like this, but now sleep is a thing I like.
Our shifts rotate, so we just record the shift letter and over time we "cover all shifts"
Our registrar accepts this for our internal audit, but they actually start really early (5:00 AM) to see what is happening on nights for their TS audits.
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andrewg
Support processes in place are just as important as differnt shifts.
Example being, what the IT support on say a Saturday night as opposed Tuesday afternoon?
Who's in charge of quality at the weekend or on a night shift?
Example being, what the IT support on say a Saturday night as opposed Tuesday afternoon?
Who's in charge of quality at the weekend or on a night shift?
Raffy
Quite Involved in Discussions
During our Surveillance Audit for TS16949, we were also audited at 5am in the morning onwards to check if there's still a system during the time that we have a new shift coming at 6am.
Sounds good to check., though it may be unholy for some, because it is not the normal day or time of work....
raffy
Sounds good to check., though it may be unholy for some, because it is not the normal day or time of work....
raffy
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Baldrick
We've been given clear guidance from BSI that all processes that operate on shifts have to be audited on all shifts. As previous posters have said, the aim is to ensure that things are not being done differently at different times of the day. It is the process that is being audited, not the people, and so auditing each shift as they rotate to days is not covering the intent of the standard.
