ISO/TS 16949 Questions About clause 7.1.2. Attribute Data Sampling

  • Thread starter qualityengineer
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Q

qualityengineer

#1
TS 16949 7.1.2. says: "...For attribute data sampling, the acceptance level shall be zero defects (see 8.2.3.1.).
For example, we measured the wall thickness of a rubber hose (lets say in final control) and find the first sample out of spects. Does this mean we should not try another sample and directly start %100 control?
Another example: We cut a 5 g. sample from a 30 kg mix of rubber and find out it's properties are out of specs. Does this mean that we should not try another sample from the lot and run the previous process (mixing), i.e. rework.

Can anybody provide some explanations on this requirement?
Regards
 
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ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Hi qualityengineer - I don't have an answer, but I modified the thread title to make it clearer to get more responses.
please let me know if misinterpreted the topic.
 

Eric ng

Involved In Discussions
#3
TS 16949 7.1.2. says: "...For attribute data sampling, the acceptance level shall be zero defects (see 8.2.3.1.).
For example, we measured the wall thickness of a rubber hose (lets say in final control) and find the first sample out of spects. Does this mean we should not try another sample and directly start %100 control?
Another example: We cut a 5 g. sample from a 30 kg mix of rubber and find out it's properties are out of specs. Does this mean that we should not try another sample from the lot and run the previous process (mixing), i.e. rework.

Can anybody provide some explanations on this requirement?
Regards
Sound like you are using the "Zero Acceptance" Sampling Plan. Since TS clause clearly stated that the acceptance, c=0, then you have to reject the entire lot and decide on the appropriate disposition method. To minimize the chances of rejection, you have work on your process capability.

Eric Ng
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#4
TS 16949 7.1.2. says: "...For attribute data sampling, the acceptance level shall be zero defects (see 8.2.3.1.).
For example, we measured the wall thickness of a rubber hose (lets say in final control) and find the first sample out of spects. Does this mean we should not try another sample and directly start %100 control?
Another example: We cut a 5 g. sample from a 30 kg mix of rubber and find out it's properties are out of specs. Does this mean that we should not try another sample from the lot and run the previous process (mixing), i.e. rework.

Can anybody provide some explanations on this requirement?
Regards
If you are measuring the wall thickness then this is variable data not attribute data
Attribute data is yes /no etc.
Variable
In the good old days of Mil Std etc the tables worked with acceptance numbers and it was possible to find X defects and accept.
The trend now is to say , if I find 1 then I have to decide what to do.
You can define this yourself, re sample etc. The important aspect is to ask the question when you find 1 and not X
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
zero acceptance plans are in place so that no lot of material is accepted "knowing that there are defects in the lot". (even if you were to remove the defective parts)

So if you find a single defect in your sample the lot is considered rejected and you must 100% inspection/screen OR rework OR scrap...
 
P

pinpin - 2009

#6
zero acceptance plans are in place so that no lot of material is accepted "knowing that there are defects in the lot". (even if you were to remove the defective parts)

So if you find a single defect in your sample the lot is considered rejected and you must 100% inspection/screen OR rework OR scrap...
I agree with Bev D, but if what Howard says is acceptable to CB auditors, it is good for qualityengineer and all of us....what is the view of CB auditors?
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#7
zero acceptance plans are in place so that no lot of material is accepted "knowing that there are defects in the lot". (even if you were to remove the defective parts)

So if you find a single defect in your sample the lot is considered rejected and you must 100% inspection/screen OR rework OR scrap...
This is in fact another way to say
The trend now is to say , if I find 1 then I have to decide what to do.
You can define this yourself, re sample etc. The important aspect is to ask the question when you find 1 and not X
My main point was that acceptance figure is 0 non conformances.
 
P

pinpin - 2009

#8
Dear Bev D and Howard,

TS clause 7.1.2 states "For attribute data sampling....", this means either Mil-std 105E or ANSI/ASQC Z1.4? :thanks::thanx:
 

wak125

Registered Visitor
#9
The clause does not state that only “Mil-std 105E or ANSI/ASQC Z1.4” are the solution, it emphasize that acceptance criteria shall be defined, therefore any mutually agreed Sampling Plan can also work and customer approval is the final solution
 
P

pinpin - 2009

#10
The clause does not state that only “Mil-std 105E or ANSI/ASQC Z1.4” are the solution, it emphasize that acceptance criteria shall be defined, therefore any mutually agreed Sampling Plan can also work and customer approval is the final solution
Dear Wak125,

Understand, but I want to be sure, say we now using Mil-Std 105 E, different sampling size there will be different Ac and Re numbers 0, 1, 2, 3, etc) in this Mil-Std 105 E, but TS just requires Ac to be 0 (zero) right?
 
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