ISO/TS 16949 vs. ISO 9001

Crimpshrine13

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#1
I work for the ISO/TS 16949 certified company, which parent company is ISO 9001 certified in foreign country. The third party audit from last year discovered that we were supposed to include our parent company as supporting function for 7.3 Process Design.

Now this year, we're going to do this extension audit on our parent company, but it worries me so much that their system does not meet the expectation of the extension audit.

The problem is, that when I reviewed their documents, I have discovered numbers of things that are not done correctly, yet their local CB is passing each audit (both re-certification and surveillance) only with Opportunity for Improvements, and no NCs.

Such is for example, two internal audits being conducted had discovered some of the things that they were not doing according to the procedure and also not recording what they were supposed to be recording, but the internal auditor had put those in OFI section and did not issue CA. During the re-certification audit, this is completely either overlooked or ignored and the third party auditor did not mention anything about it at all.

Another example is that management review minutes does not indicate that the minimal items such as on-time delivery, CA & PA, customer complaints were discussed although the procedure manual says to discuss over these items during the management review meetings. This was also not mentioned during the re-certification audit.

Per ISO/TS 16949 standard, these are very basic and must items that need to be done, but it appears to be that the local CB doing ISO 9001 audit is letting slide many things and just citing any issues as OFI.

How strictly ISO 9001 audited by the third party CBs? With ISO/TS 16949, IATF is overlooking what CBs are doing under the strict rules, but I didn't think ISO has similar function.

I was also recently reading the CSR for Fiat/Chrysler, and it said " ISO 9001 certification through an IATF-recognized Certification Body is recommended." I am thinking this is because many ISO 9001 registered suppliers are probably not meeting their expectation although they require all suppliers to be ISO/TS 16949 compliant, which is the case here with the problem I am having.

Is anyone here familiar with ISO 9001 audit in comparison with ISO/TS 16949 audits?
 
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Jen Kirley

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#2
My experience with TS 16949 audits is that they were rigorous, but the Internal Audit process was not audited to the extent of contents of the audit records.

ISO 9001 audits are also supposed to be rigorous. I try to be thorough when I do mine. TS 16949 adds the sub-elements and requirements of core manuals: FMEA, SPC, MSA, PPAP and APQP. TS 16949 auditors will ask for control plans but as an ISO 9001 auditor I am not required to ask for any of these things.

It's true that there is variation among CB auditors between registrars, regions and accrediting body overseers. I have heard a lot of complaints about lax auditing in developing nations. How must of it is true, I do not know.
 
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