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ISO/TS16949 Internal Calibration Lab need to include Production Equipments

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R

riograndeguy

#12
This is a copy of what ours says.. (lab scope of accreditation)


Calibration and inspection of hand held measuring devices
Calibration and inspection of hand held hardness testers

For extruded and drawn aluminum tubes.

Using the following standards or portion of standards:

ASTM: B221, B483, B491, B557, B647, B648, E8, E18,
ANSI H35.2
 
K

Ken K

#13
Here is the form layout I use. A little different information than AndyN used, but most all the information is there for the auditor.
 

Attachments

D

dvd101

#14
Here is the form layout I use. A little different information than AndyN used, but most all the information is there for the auditor.
Hi AndyN / Ken,

The equipment that listed in the attachment are the masters use to calibrate other / production equipments, right?

Your company is ISO/TS16949 accredited, right?

Regards,
David
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#15
This is a copy of what ours says.. (lab scope of accreditation)


Calibration and inspection of hand held measuring devices
Calibration and inspection of hand held hardness testers

For extruded and drawn aluminum tubes.

Using the following standards or portion of standards:

ASTM: B221, B483, B491, B557, B647, B648, E8, E18,
ANSI H35.2
"hand held measuring devices" is too generic. Is it Mics, Calipers, Thread gages, Attribute gages, Pins, etc... Needs to be spelled out into families of gages at a minimum.

Also, the equipment used to test them must be defined as well. Sometimes that is done in the instructions.
 
#16
Hi AndyN / Ken,

The equipment that listed in the attachment are the masters use to calibrate other / production equipments, right?

Your company is ISO/TS16949 accredited, right?

Regards,
David
David:
My scope shows what the mastering equipment for calibration is - gauge blocks. The other equipment is the typical test/inspection stuff. The company has been TS registered for nearly 4 years. Never had any issues with this scope.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#17
David:
My scope shows what the mastering equipment for calibration is - gauge blocks. The other equipment is the typical test/inspection stuff. The company has been TS registered for nearly 4 years. Never had any issues with this scope.
David,

I think Andy's scope is very good. He provided a very good model for you to use. Remember, the left hand column is the inspection test or calibration test to be performed. The rest of the information builds off that column.

I like the matrix format, and this seems to be the direction the calibration industry is moving toward.

I would recommend one change. The first row shows tests-dimensional. I would break that out by type of gage - one row for dimensional measuring-CMM, one row for dimensional measuring-Mics, etc. The reason is, the method of measuirng and the level of accuracy and resolution with the different gages is so different, I would not combine them. Also, the skill level required to use a CMM is significantly higher. This would be more clear to the reader.

Further, I have seen some copies where a fifth column was added, showing who has been qualified to perform the various tests. The longer the scope becomes, the more beneficial that might be.

Good luck.
 
R

riograndeguy

#18
"hand held measuring devices" is too generic. Is it Mics, Calipers, Thread gages, Attribute gages, Pins, etc... Needs to be spelled out into families of gages at a minimum.

Also, the equipment used to test them must be defined as well. Sometimes that is done in the instructions.

Hjilling, I'm not doubting you, is there something, somewhere making this the rule? Because I'm not the one who draws up the scope, I would have to have proof when I approach them that draw it up, to change it. Thanks for the heads up. :)

The gages would be mics, calipers, laser micrometers, depth gages, webster hardness testers.
 
K

Ken K

#19
Hi AndyN / Ken,

The equipment that listed in the attachment are the masters use to calibrate other / production equipments, right?

Your company is ISO/TS16949 accredited, right?

Regards,
David
That's correct Dave. Set yours up to suit you and include as much information as possible. Will make things easier.

We are TS16949 / ISO17025 accredited.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#20
Hjilling, I'm not doubting you, is there something, somewhere making this the rule? Because I'm not the one who draws up the scope, I would have to have proof when I approach them that draw it up, to change it. Thanks for the heads up. :)

The gages would be mics, calipers, laser micrometers, depth gages, webster hardness testers.
It is a fair question, with an adequte answer, I hope. The standard is somewhat vague. So we have to apply logic.

The purpose of a Lab Scope is not to pass an audit.

The purpose of a Lab Scope is to identify the tests we have determined we are competent to perform, the equipment we will use, and the specs or instruction we will follow (TS std, pg 3, defintion #3.1.5).

So, "Dimensional Checks" is a very generic description of a test. Which equipment will we use? I can use a mic, but not a CMM. Does that matter? Of course. A CMM is accurate to several magnitudes over a mic or caliper. It is not the same thing! So, why would we list it as the "same thing?"

A dimensional check, with a CMM, is one thing. A dimensional check with a mic is another. A dimensional check with a dial indicator, or thread gage, or depth mic, are different. If they are different, why would we list them together? Would 3 extra rows on the scope document cost us more? Why are we doing the scope in the first place? To define the tests we are capable of. The more detail we provide, the useful the scope becomes.

I propose, consistent with ISO practices, that only like, common things should be combined. Different things should be put on different lines. Otherwise, the scope loses any meaning.

For example:

Tests - Using equipment - to relevant specs...would be completely meaningless. Thus, the further I can get from there, the better.

That's the best I can do. Hope it helps...
It seems rather simple and obvious, or logical, to my perspective.
 
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