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ISO/TS16949 (to become IATF 16949:2016) alignment to ISO 9001:2015
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Reg Morrison
Re: Will ISO/TS16949 be aligned to ISO9001:2015 in the future?
From http://www.iatfglobaloversight.org/
From http://www.iatfglobaloversight.org/
Re: Will ISO/TS16949 be aligned to ISO9001:2015 in the future?
The IATF has completed phase one of the development process and finalized the design specification for the revision of the IATF automotive standard.
Efforts are being undertaken to collect data for analysis and potential inclusion into the revised standard. A standardized common survey will be administered by the IATF member national associations to stakeholders in the coming months. Posted on 30 Mar 2015
Interesting wording; This comment came from the IATF web page specifically (link below)
http://www.iatfglobaloversight.org/content.aspx?page=IATF ISO/TS 16949 Revision Workgroup News
Some points to consider when reading this response.
1) The IATF has not adopted ISO 9001:2015 as a replacement for TS-16949, the automotive group will continue with their own technical standard. Their own response 5 Dec 2014 indicates this to be the case.
2) Read the second paragraph which starts with Efforts. This paragraph clearly states "collect data" and "potential inclusion" which are terms whose meaning indicates maybe or we will see. Afterwords, there is discussion concerning a "Survey" being issued to IATF members and stake holders (collecting opinion in order to make determination).
3) After working with legal council, the sticky wicket with this revision is going to be the legal wrangling presented by the text of this standard which opens up potential liabilities which were not part of any of the prior versions. Here is an example of one of those potential liabilities
3.02
interested party
person or organization (3.01) that can affect, be affected by, or perceive themselves to be affected by a decision or activity
The legal opinion, I have been given related to of the definition of Interested Parties, is that it applies to everyone. The operative word here is "Perceive" which is all a person or organization need consider as reason to file suit, with cause.
Consider this, is your competition a person or organization who could perceive themselves affected by a decision or activity of your organization?
Remember the 2015 revision of ISO 9001 MSS, is Risk based, and therefore this type of language has potential risk, especially to the financial status of an organization, it therefore must be considered.
There have been others who have stated that an organization can be sued for near about anything anyway so this text does not matter. However that is simply not an accurate statement. Lawsuits require legal cause and a statement such as the one above (Interested Parties Definition) can quite possibly affect an organizations legal duty of care. I'm not a lawyer and I am not offering a legal opinion, its simply something I observe which my initial investigation and discussion with legal counsel, indicates needs legal consideration. Read up on Tort, Cause in Fact and Proximate Cause, understand duty and breach of duty. To fail to meet the requirements of the definition of "Interested Parties" could be considered a legal breach of duty, its best to get your legal representative to read this proposed version of the standard, prior to accepting liability for its statements.
The IATF has completed phase one of the development process and finalized the design specification for the revision of the IATF automotive standard.
Efforts are being undertaken to collect data for analysis and potential inclusion into the revised standard. A standardized common survey will be administered by the IATF member national associations to stakeholders in the coming months. Posted on 30 Mar 2015
Interesting wording; This comment came from the IATF web page specifically (link below)
http://www.iatfglobaloversight.org/content.aspx?page=IATF ISO/TS 16949 Revision Workgroup News
Some points to consider when reading this response.
1) The IATF has not adopted ISO 9001:2015 as a replacement for TS-16949, the automotive group will continue with their own technical standard. Their own response 5 Dec 2014 indicates this to be the case.
2) Read the second paragraph which starts with Efforts. This paragraph clearly states "collect data" and "potential inclusion" which are terms whose meaning indicates maybe or we will see. Afterwords, there is discussion concerning a "Survey" being issued to IATF members and stake holders (collecting opinion in order to make determination).
3) After working with legal council, the sticky wicket with this revision is going to be the legal wrangling presented by the text of this standard which opens up potential liabilities which were not part of any of the prior versions. Here is an example of one of those potential liabilities
3.02
interested party
person or organization (3.01) that can affect, be affected by, or perceive themselves to be affected by a decision or activity
The legal opinion, I have been given related to of the definition of Interested Parties, is that it applies to everyone. The operative word here is "Perceive" which is all a person or organization need consider as reason to file suit, with cause.
Consider this, is your competition a person or organization who could perceive themselves affected by a decision or activity of your organization?
Remember the 2015 revision of ISO 9001 MSS, is Risk based, and therefore this type of language has potential risk, especially to the financial status of an organization, it therefore must be considered.
There have been others who have stated that an organization can be sued for near about anything anyway so this text does not matter. However that is simply not an accurate statement. Lawsuits require legal cause and a statement such as the one above (Interested Parties Definition) can quite possibly affect an organizations legal duty of care. I'm not a lawyer and I am not offering a legal opinion, its simply something I observe which my initial investigation and discussion with legal counsel, indicates needs legal consideration. Read up on Tort, Cause in Fact and Proximate Cause, understand duty and breach of duty. To fail to meet the requirements of the definition of "Interested Parties" could be considered a legal breach of duty, its best to get your legal representative to read this proposed version of the standard, prior to accepting liability for its statements.
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Re: Will ISO/TS16949 be aligned to ISO9001:2015 in the future?
The ISO/TS 16949:2016 Transition Plan is available from the IATF website.
The ISO/TS 16949:2016 Transition Plan is available from the IATF website.
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Filip M.
Re: Will ISO/TS16949 be aligned to ISO9001:2015 in the future?
When should the draft be available ? Where to obtain ? Must the draft also be approved by an ISO committee as eg.: ISO 9001:2015 was approved by TC 176 ?
When should the draft be available ? Where to obtain ? Must the draft also be approved by an ISO committee as eg.: ISO 9001:2015 was approved by TC 176 ?
Re: Will ISO/TS16949 be aligned to ISO9001:2015 in the future?
The IATF has not clarified yet when the revision, including drafts (if any) will be released. You can find the following text from the IATF website:
Yes, ISO/TS 16949 is managed under the ISO/TC 176. The ISO website shows absolutely nothing about a revision to this document, still listed as in stage 90.93, which means that it is a confirmed international standard. As usual, ISO seems not to bother with following their own procedures and directives when it comes to the TS 16949 document.
Re: Will ISO/TS16949 be aligned to ISO9001:2015 in the future?
Well....to be fair... The ISO 9001:2015 portion should be already approved because ISO owns the copyrights to the ISO 9001 part of ISO/TS 16949:20XX. I am sure that TC176 is awaiting the approval and release of the automotive additions.
The members of the IATF are not speed demons and have painfully kept all changes/updates very close to their vest. All ISO/TS Certs expire in 2018 and there is not a whole lot of time left, plus finding and re-certifying 3rd-Party Auditors will be a tremendous challenge too... :mg:
Well....to be fair... The ISO 9001:2015 portion should be already approved because ISO owns the copyrights to the ISO 9001 part of ISO/TS 16949:20XX. I am sure that TC176 is awaiting the approval and release of the automotive additions.
The members of the IATF are not speed demons and have painfully kept all changes/updates very close to their vest. All ISO/TS Certs expire in 2018 and there is not a whole lot of time left, plus finding and re-certifying 3rd-Party Auditors will be a tremendous challenge too... :mg:
Re: Will ISO/TS16949 be aligned to ISO9001:2015 in the future?
At the least, the document should have been placed in stage 90.20 now, which would indicate it is being reviewed, or 90.92, document being revised.
For an organization that sets standards for the rest of the world, an apparent failure to follow their own procedures does not bode well, imo.
ISO has established a document describing the processes supposed to be used in the standards development phases. ISO/IEC Directives, Part 1, Consolidated ISO Supplement, 2016. According to their own document, a Technical Specification should undergo a review process after 3 years and a maximum life cycle of 6 years.
At the least, the document should have been placed in stage 90.20 now, which would indicate it is being reviewed, or 90.92, document being revised.
For an organization that sets standards for the rest of the world, an apparent failure to follow their own procedures does not bode well, imo.
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Re: Will ISO/TS16949 be aligned to ISO9001:2015 in the future?
According to this press release, the standard is expected to be released in December 2016.
Re: ISO/TS16949 alignment to ISO9001:2015
Interesting (joint ISO & IATF) press release, available at http://www.iatfglobaloversight.org/docs/IATF Press release v7 08082016_CLEAN_IATF.pdf
According to the announcement, the IATF 16949:2016 will no longer be an ISO standard, but will maintain alignment with ISO 9001:2015. Similar to what the IAQG did with IAQG 9100, known in the USA as AS9100.
The document is to be released in October 2016.
See also the other press release available at http://www.iatfglobaloversight.org/docs/IATF Supplemental Bulletin_8Aug2016_CLEAN.pdf
Interesting (joint ISO & IATF) press release, available at http://www.iatfglobaloversight.org/docs/IATF Press release v7 08082016_CLEAN_IATF.pdf
According to the announcement, the IATF 16949:2016 will no longer be an ISO standard, but will maintain alignment with ISO 9001:2015. Similar to what the IAQG did with IAQG 9100, known in the USA as AS9100.
The document is to be released in October 2016.
See also the other press release available at http://www.iatfglobaloversight.org/docs/IATF Supplemental Bulletin_8Aug2016_CLEAN.pdf
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