ISO9001:2000 Achieved! Recommended for Registration!

[Quality-Geek]

Congrats!!
So is the hard part getting management to continue maintaining the system, or having to do everything yourself because management doesn't understand that certification means a continued investment of time, money and effort??

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Congratulations!

And remember, for the next audit, addressing the minors can be added to the pile of continual improvements!

addressing minor nc's is continual improvement...huh?

 

[Jim Wynne]

addressing minor nc's is continual improvement...huh?

Of course not. Making something better should never be considered improvement.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Of course not. Making something better should never be considered improvement.

While fixing failures can be considered "improvement" in a generic sense, it would set the quality movement backwards 25 years if we adopted that as the primary definition of "continual improvement."

For example, "my house was on fire, but no problem, I put it out." I don't think I want to put that under "continual improvement."

 

[Jim Wynne]

For example, "my house was on fire, but no problem, I put it out." I don't think I want to put that under "continual improvement."

Why do you assume that fixing something can't (or shouldn't) result in improvement? If the thing--the process, your house, whatever--is somehow broken, and you fix it so that it's better than it was to begin with, that's not improvement?

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Why do you assume that fixing something can't (or shouldn't) result in improvement? If the thing--the process, your house, whatever--is somehow broken, and you fix it so that it's better than it was to begin with, that's not improvement?

I agreed that it represents "improvement" in a generic sense.

But correcting a failed process should not be construed as "continual improvement" or we will go in circles. Continual improvement should be susteained forward motion. Continual improvement expects more than fixing failures. That's where we were 20 years ago.

 

[Jim Wynne]

I agreed that it represents "improvement" in a generic sense.

But correcting a failed process should not be construed as "continual improvement" or we will go in circles. Continual improvement should be susteained forward motion. Continual improvement expects more than fixing failures. That's where we were 20 years ago.

You misunderstood me, I think. Forget about generic. I'm talking about making something better than it was to begin with. Not better in conforming to the ISO requirements--the standard is a secondary consideration. Last year, my concrete front porch was falling apart. I replaced it with something that's better than the concrete one was when it was new. I have a paper-based document control system, and there have been a few escapes. I replace it with an electronic system that's better than the paper-based system, rather than trying to fix the paper system, which I could have done. In both cases, using any definition of the word you want to use, improvement has taken place. And if I keep improving things, then both are part of continualous improvement.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

You misunderstood me, I think. Forget about generic. I'm talking about making something better than it was to begin with. Not better in conforming to the ISO requirements--the standard is a secondary consideration. Last year, my concrete front porch was falling apart. I replaced it with something that's better than the concrete one was when it was new. I have a paper-based document control system, and there have been a few escapes. I replace it with an electronic system that's better than the paper-based system, rather than trying to fix the paper system, which I could have done. In both cases, using any definition of the word you want to use, improvement has taken place. And if I keep improving things, then both are part of continualous improvement.

Yeah, I would buy both of those examples. I would slot them under "improvements," and would not "fill out a corrective action" form for them.