Iso9001:2000 Clause 7.4.2 B - Help me define the scope of 'personnel'

S

sphinxstar

#1
Hi, Mentors,
Today, we discussed the clause:
'Purchasing information shall describe the product to be purchased, including where appropriate: b) Requirements for qualification of personnel, and'

Here can you help me define the scope of 'personnel' ?

One of my colleague emphasize that 'personnel' exclusively refer to 'supplier's personnel' who have to competency to provide the product which meet the purchasing requirement.
Does that correct?

Many thanks! :thanx:
 
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Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
sphinxstar said:
Hi, Mentors,
Today, we discussed the clause:
'Purchasing information shall describe the product to be purchased, including where appropriate: b) Requirements for qualification of personnel, and'

refer to 'supplier's personnel' who have to competency to provide the product which meet the purchasing requirement.
Does that correct?
Hi :bigwave:

Yes, he is correct - it refers to your supplier's personnel. For example, we used to do work for a company who required that all welding on any of their products had to be done by an AWS certified welder and inspected by an AWS certified weld inspector. It was in their supplier requirements manual and on every Purchase Order. So we had to make sure that we had at least a couple of guys who were AWS certified.

Does that help?
 
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A

AllanJ

#3
As a side note to the question, our friend is in China and we do get some questions about ISO 9K from the Middle Kingdom. Is there not an authorized chinese version of ISO 9K? If so, how good is the quality of translation and in which dialect (e.g. Mandarin, Cantonese) is it offered?

Since everything in our stores is now "Made in China", I really do worry when out shopping if that bargain wok (Made in China) was made by a registered firm (doesn't everyone look for the associated stickers and stampings on the WalMart product lines?) and whether or not they really do have an accurate translation of ISO 9K on which to base their system! I am sure my stir fry will be far tastier if only I knew!
 
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Antonio Vieira

Involved - Posts
Trusted Information Resource
#4
What we see now about “Made in China” was the same 40 years ago with “Made in Japan”…
So you should be worry, in Japan now ISO 9001 is so poor for their quality people, that this standard should be in the Japanese quality museum…if there is one.
In Europe we are facing a big problem with China’s products. Our political leaders are always stating that it’s an economical problem, that Chinese people earn such low wages that it’s impossible to compete with them and all the factories are going there. This is true, but have you seen what’s the ISO 9001 largest growing country in the world?
 
A

AllanJ

#5
António Vieira said:
What we see now about “Made in China” was the same 40 years ago with “Made in Japan”…
So you should be worry, in Japan now ISO 9001 is so poor for their quality people, that this standard should be in the Japanese quality museum…if there is one.
In Europe we are facing a big problem with China’s products. Our political leaders are always stating that it’s an economical problem, that Chinese people earn such low wages that it’s impossible to compete with them and all the factories are going there. This is true, but have you seen what’s the ISO 9001 largest growing country in the world?
Antonio, the China problem is being discussed over here in America everyday. The latest allegations being made include the notion that China is "manipulating" it currency. This last week my local congressman sent me an email expressing outrage at China's conduct. Of course, this is all a smoke screen and rather laughable as that same congressman comes from a party that alleges it believes in free trade, assisted China enter the WTO, is supported by "business " which is trying to export jobs to China as rapidly as it can and in the case of certain elements of Detroit's Big 3 car makers, simultaneously demand that suppliers source their components from China while closing factories here.

China pegged its yuan to the dollar many years ago and there was never any hint then that to do so was a form of "currency manipulation". Various other nations have also pegged their currency to the dollar over years. The upset, of course, is that China has yet to reset the peg, not that it should remove the peg. (Personally, I think China should float the yuan and that the yuan will rapidly become more important currency that the yen or the Euro: one day, by the laws of big numbers one can expect it will be more dominant than the US dollar, a thought that, for Americans, is as unthinkable for them as the demise of sterling was for the British, 100 years ago.)


Yes, China and other emerging nations will become more dominant traders and percentages of the global economy. It has all happened before (look at the demise of former great nations e.g. Britain etc.) and will happen again.

By their nature, politicians of course, will cite China's low wages as a competitive problem. But, I would rather see that as a challenge and opportunity. My observations of much of American business is that it has barely touched the problem of waste and asociated substantial opportunities to reduce the alleged competitive gap between China and USA.

In Europe, you have the problem of high fuel costs (largely because of tax), VAT @ 17.5 % which does not help and the EU with its bureaucratic stifling of business through excessive legislation. (As you may know I am a Brit.)

Individual EU nations, notably Italy, are now also grappling with the consequences of the Euro that prevent its adopters from controlling their own exchange rate so as to adjust to global trading circumstances. But, the EU is also now beginning to benefit from the low wage workers in the new members states. And, so the EU has its own internal China card which is gradually having a similar effect on world trade. EU politicians seem to turn a blind eye to the export of jobs from Freance, Germany, Britain etc to Hungary, Czech Republic and so on but the effect on the workforce in the western parts of the EU is the same: the jobs are gone, they must seek new ones.

For Portugal, whose economy has done well in recent years, notably since joining the EU, what worries me is that the Douro valley may not be able to attract sufficient workers to tend the essential crop with the result that my traditional Sunday glass of port will be too expensive. Today, from Quinta Panascal, it will be Fonseca! :rolleyes:

And, when I drink my glass of port each Sunday, Antonio, I assure you, ISO 9K is totally absent from my thoughts. :)
 
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S

surendro - 2009

#6
Hi Allan,

What a way to put ones thoughts! Very incisive, analytical and educative! Thanx Allan for enlighetening me.

Surendro
 
S

surendro - 2009

#7
Hi,

The clause you are referring to is 7.4.2 Purchasing information. It states, Purchasing information shall describe the product to be purchased, including where applicable:

b) requirements for qualification of personnel, and
c) quality management system requirements.

This clearly means that your friend is right. The standard requires that the supplier should have qualified people who can understand and meet the qualitative requirements of the product being purchased.

Surendro
 
D

Don Palmer

#8
Back on topic...

surendro said:
Hi,

The clause you are referring to is 7.4.2 Purchasing information. It states, Purchasing information shall describe the product to be purchased, including where applicable:

b) requirements for qualification of personnel, and
c) quality management system requirements.

This clearly means that your friend is right. The standard requires that the supplier should have qualified people who can understand and meet the qualitative requirements of the product being purchased.

Surendro
Surendro, thanks for your response. This thread had gotten off-topic after Cari's post. :applause:
 
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