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Issue: Suppliers charge for complete Level III PPAP package - Heat Treated Parts

V

vardar3

#1
I have a supplier that charges $300 for level 3 PPAP, or we can get a part submission warrant for free. I would like a complete PPAP, but my sales person is making a deal out of the $300.

This is a heat treated part, and I like to take HT seriously. This is the first time facing this type of response from sales, but I know it will come up again. Have any of you experience reactions like this and how did you handle it?
 
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bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
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#2
Re: Issue: Suppliers charge for PPAP

Something sounds fishy. The PPAP requirement is that all 18 elements are addressed, no matter what level PPAP you request. The only difference is how much they actually send to you. So, they are charging you $300 for making a copy!!!! Either that, or they are misguided in what the requirement is.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#3
Re: Issue: Suppliers charge for PPAP

I have a supplier that charges $300 for level 3 PPAP, or we can get a part submission warrant for free. I would like a complete PPAP, but my sales person is making a deal out of the $300.

This is a heat treated part, and I like to take HT seriously. This is the first time facing this type of response from sales, but I know it will come up again. Have any of you experience reactions like this and how did you handle it?
If your purchase order specified that a Level X PPAP would be required and the supplier accepted the order without exception, the supplier would be obliged to comply with the terms and conditions of the PO--no upcharge for PPAP should be allowed. On the other hand, if the supplier is taking exception to the PO before accepting it, you need to decide whether or not a full submission is worth $300 or not. You will need to take into consideration, among other things, your customer's requirements for sub-tier PPAP documentation.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#4
Re: Issue: Suppliers charge for PPAP

Something sounds fishy. The PPAP requirement is that all 18 elements are addressed, no matter what level PPAP you request. The only difference is how much they actually send to you. So, they are charging you $300 for making a copy!!!! Either that, or they are misguided in what the requirement is.
The point is well-taken about the submission/retention thing, but no PPAP submission (or retention) includes all 18 elements. The supplier is no doubt saying that if you want more than a PSW (irrespective of retention/submission requirements), the OP will have to pay for it, otherwise all requirements other than the PSW will have to be waived.
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
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#5
Re: Issue: Suppliers charge for PPAP

If you are really concerned, you might want to get a warrant, then go to their facility to review the rest of the PPAP for free. That is one way to tell if they really understand the requirement. Note page 18 of PPAP 4th edition state that the portions not supplied are retained. That means they were completed, but not sent to the customer. Shipping and handling is bad these days, but not $300 bad...well, unless next day red. Sure, if they are not applicable (such as appearance), then a statement attesting to that is sufficient for that PPAP. But....it is addressed.

Good luck with that waiver thing. No point doing it at all at that point. Ask for a cert.
 
Last edited:

WCHorn

Rubber, Too Glamorous?
Trusted Information Resource
#6
Re: Issue: Suppliers charge for PPAP

Some of the confusion about PPAP starts at the top. I've found that even some top tier suppliers don't understand PPAP and tell their suppliers to "just send me a warrant." As Bob cited, once PPAP is invoked, all the requirements apply. The level just advises the supplier what to send to the customer and what to retain at their end.

As Jim says, it all comes back to contract review. If you put the PPAP requirement in your PO and the supplier accepted it, the supplier is obligated to fulfill the requirement with no fuss.:whip:
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#7
Re: Issue: Suppliers charge for PPAP

Some of the confusion about PPAP starts at the top. I've found that even some top tier suppliers don't understand PPAP and tell their suppliers to "just send me a warrant." As Bob cited, once PPAP is invoked, all the requirements apply. The level just advises the supplier what to send to the customer and what to retain at their end.

As Jim says, it all comes back to contract review. If you put the PPAP requirement in your PO and the supplier accepted it, the supplier is obligated to fulfill the requirement with no fuss.:whip:
The term "PPAP" is no longer strictly associated with the AIAG requirements. Many companies use the term (and a system based loosely on the AIAG requirements) to describe their own part approval process. The AIAG requirements are invoked not with the mention of "PPAP," but with specific contractual reference to either AIAG requirements or the customer's own requirements.
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#8
Re: Issue: Suppliers charge for PPAP

The term "PPAP" is no longer strictly associated with the AIAG requirements. Many companies use the term (and a system based loosely on the AIAG requirements) to describe their own part approval process. The AIAG requirements are invoked not with the mention of "PPAP," but with specific contractual reference to either AIAG requirements or the customer's own requirements.
Good point. That should be clarified in the OPs question, as well as in their supplier quality handbook. But, it is the customer's requirements, not the supplier's wishful thinking. Either way, what is the point of a warrant without doing any work behind it? For that, get a cert.
 

Marc

Fully vaccinated are you?
Staff member
Admin
#9
Re: Issue: Suppliers charge for PPAP

Something sounds fishy. The PPAP requirement is that all 18 elements are addressed, no matter what level PPAP you request. The only difference is how much they actually send to you. So, they are charging you $300 for making a copy!!!! Either that, or they are misguided in what the requirement is.
Well, they have to get all the papers together, copy them and send them. US$300 doesn't sound bad. I've seen some good sized PPAP packages.
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#10
Re: Issue: Suppliers charge for PPAP

Well, they have to get all the papers together, copy them and send them. US$300 doesn't sound bad. I've seen some good sized PPAP packages.
True - that 's why I send them electronically. Let them print them out.

I still have my doubts that they are worried about paper costs.
 
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