Issuing of CoC to Customer in a Word or Excel format

Skilz

Involved In Discussions
#1
Hi All,

Not sure if Ive missed something but went through the 9k std and could not find the exact answer Im looking for.

One of my customers have recently upgraded their ERP system and to make life easier for them from a data input point of view, they have asked if I can issue the current CoC documents in a Word / Excel format and not as pdf as we currently do.
I am reluctant to do that for obvious reasons and have pushed back, but they are still persistent on this.

Apart from my internal procedures, is there any ISO clause I can use to back up my statement to this customer

thanks in advance
 
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Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#2
I've given CoC's in XL before.
Some customers simply want to skip the retype and import the data into their software...or at leas copy/paste.

I'll keep the .pdf and the original file for later comparison should someone play games with things...but I've not had an issue with pushback over something someone has edited...
I've had customers complain of out of spec stuff on their control charts, only to find it is a typo when they retyped from a pdf...I figure the editable doc has exactly the same risk as a pdf... .pdf's can be edited and manipulated pretty easily too, simply using powerpoint.

My two cents...

I'n not aware of any requirement (in the standard) to even MAKE a CoC, let alone provide one...and certainly not anything about what form or format or platform.
 

John Predmore

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
CoC documents in a Word / Excel format and not as pdf as we currently do.
I am reluctant to do that for obvious reasons
The customer may ask for a particular format so the ERP can parse the electronic document and pull out information fields.

ISO-9001 section 7.5.3 says "Documented information retained as evidence of conformity shall be protected from unintended alterations." I think the "obvious reasons" you mention are to avoid CoC alteration outside your knowledge or control. Even PDF is not absolute protection, because PDF editor software exists. MS Word and Excel have the ability to password protect files, but those protections are also not absolute. But most people accept these are reasonable efforts to control unintended alterations.

May sure both parties understand the other's needs and reservations. There may be other options to explore to reach a mutually agreeable solution.
Hopefully you and your customer can devise measures to protect against unintended alterations once the document is outside your control. if that is your concern.
 

Skilz

Involved In Discussions
#4
Thanks all for this valuable input and pointers, it is food for thought .

May main concern is in fact just the unintended alterations, maybe unintentional, to the documents. But by keeping a copy of the certificate/doc being sent, it does keep originality. But if I can avoid this altogether then why not.
Perhaps a mutual understanding and agreement would be the best between me and the customer

Thanks again for the input
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#5
If they change it it's not your fault, you can make it a read only Word document, keep an original as a pdf, whatever...........If you think you have a cheat for a client maybe re-evaluate the relationship.
 

dwperron

Trusted Information Resource
#6
Thanks all for this valuable input and pointers, it is food for thought .

May main concern is in fact just the unintended alterations, maybe unintentional, to the documents. But by keeping a copy of the certificate/doc being sent, it does keep originality. But if I can avoid this altogether then why not.
Perhaps a mutual understanding and agreement would be the best between me and the customer

Thanks again for the input
There is an old saying:
"Locks are for keeping the honest people out"
That is why the standard specifically calls out "unintended" alterations.
Simple password protection covers that.
Anything else on the part of your customer is willful fraud.
The sensible thing for you is to satisfy a reasonable request from your customer. You're not the Calibration Police.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#8
Good advice on password and locks (be aware that locked cells only work if you also have it password protected).
Consider also how you store your "sent email".
That's the easiest and most convincing form of proof should anything crop up.
"I sent this, please find the sent email attached." is easy and as irrefutable as it gets (which BTW is not so irrefutable).
 
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