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It is required that External labs be also certified to ISO 9001?

A

AndyN

Moved On
#31
#31
Sebastian said:
ISO 9001 is management standard, while ISO 17025 is not. It is focused on laboratory core activity only.
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Not at all. Also, ISO 9001 is, to be blunt, useless in a lab which is a testing or calibration lab. There is ZERO in ISO 9001:2015 which requires any kind of validity (including how to report with any degree of confidence) the results of testing/calibration. The fact that ISO/IEC 17025 exists, is itself testament to the fact that ISO 9001 DOESN'T fit a lab's needs for process management.
 
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D

dwperron

Trusted Information Resource
#32
#32
Once again, I agree. You guys are right, ISO 9001 certification does not really add any value to the product of an ISO 17025 accredited lab.

And I will still take the customers that you "purists" lose because you have chosen to do what is "right".

I consider this a business expense - it makes it easier on my customers. It makes them happy. It can help them in their ISO 9001 audits. To some misguided souls it looks like we care more about quality than the labs that are not 9001 certified.

It costs money to establish a great website, but labs are willing to spend that....
 
G

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#33
#33
dwperron said:
Once again, I agree. You guys are right, ISO 9001 certification does not really add any value to the product of an ISO 17025 accredited lab.

And I will still take the customers that you "purists" lose because you have chosen to do what is "right".

I consider this a business expense - it makes it easier on my customers. It makes them happy. It can help them in their ISO 9001 audits. To some misguided souls it looks like we care more about quality than the labs that are not 9001 certified.

It costs money to establish a great website, but labs are willing to spend that....
Click to expand...
If you constantly do non-value added things, you will eventually be out of business. I have a friend who is deep into automotive with his company. Margins are thin, so he will not do anything that doesn't add value. Thus, he never fills out and returns "quality self surveys" and such nonsense. He sends the customer his cert. and tells them they are free to visit at any time. He has more business than he can handle. Why? Because he is good at what they do. All the rest is noise.
 
D

dwperron

Trusted Information Resource
#34
#34
If I make it easier for a customer to pass their ISO 9001 audit, or I make it easier for that customer to choose me as a supplier by fulfilling their internal requirements, is that not value added?

It is value added for my customer.
A happy customer is value added to me.
 
A

AndyN

Moved On
#35
#35
dwperron said:
If I make it easier for a customer to pass their ISO 9001 audit, or I make it easier for that customer to choose me as a supplier by fulfilling their internal requirements, is that not value added?

It is value added for my customer.
A happy customer is value added to me.
Click to expand...
The road to ruin is paved with good intentions...
 
D

dwperron

Trusted Information Resource
#36
#36
One last thought on this issue.

The 17025 accreditation that you correctly state should be adequate to satisfy customer requirements for an ISO 9001 certification.

There are very few labs out there that only offer 17025 accredited calibrations. Any calibrations purchased that are not 17025 accredited will not be able to use the accreditation towards compliance for their calibration event.

Thus, a "commercial" or "Z540" calibration cannot claim the same quality management system as an accredited calibration. They only get the 17025 compliance if they purchase it.

That is another reason why many labs maintain the dual accreditation / certification model. It covers all customer calibrations.
 
D

dwperron

Trusted Information Resource
#38
#38
Remember that I was referring to labs that ONLY offer 17025 accredited calibrations.

Well, if you consider the Big Guns out there: Fluke, Keysight, Tektronix, Rohde & Schwarz, Keithley, National Instruments, Mitutoyo, even Troemner and Rice Lake, and all of the large nationwide labs, they all have multiple tiers of calibration services offered, not just 17025 accredited.

In fact, in order for a lab to be fully 17025 accredited in all of their calibrations then all their calibrations would have to fall under their scope of accreditation. I know some specialized labs such as Starrett Weber, Modal Shop, some pipette labs, etc. where they only calibrate a limited range of items and all their calibrations are accredited. In those cases they market that all their calibrations are accredited.
 
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