I've been auditing for a CB for 18 years

#1
I've been auditing for a CB for 18 years. The ISO 9001:2015 version of the standard in my. opion is a step backwards. It. borders on being, again in my opinion, useless and not auditable.
 
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Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#2
I've been auditing for a CB for 18 years.
I've been auditing and in working in quality since the 1980's. This is not the place to be telling people you are in some way "the source of knowledge". Your 18 years in auditing vs. my ~35 years. Now - Who has the experience?

Put your experience in your Profile here. Trying to pull rank/experience doesn't work here because many of us have much more experience than you. I will also add - I have worked in companies, as in being an employee. I would very much be interested in your complete resume. How much actual work experience do you have outside auditing? One thing I have been disgusted with over the years has been auditors who "know it all" who had little or no actual work experience on the factory floor.

My opinion is that an auditor should have at least 5 to 10 years of actual work experience, working as a company employee, in the industry they are auditing in.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#3
I've been auditing for a CB for 18 years. The ISO 9001:2015 version of the standard in my. opion is a step backwards. It. borders on being, again in my opinion, useless and not auditable.
9K15 is very auditable as long as you stay out of it and just audit.

I also misunderstood you earlier at getting out after 8 years, my bad
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#4
I have clients in the service industry who are very grateful for the changes; the 2008 version was pretty plainly directed at manufacturing.

The 2015 version moved from "Thou shalt do xyz" into "Thou shalt do what you and your interested parties have determined is the right thing to do." Auditing without all of those "shalls" requires some imagination. People have been complaining about this for a few years, to no avail: the standard is here, we go with it or we get a different job.
:2cents:
 

Risky

On Holiday
#5
Marc,
I was simply stating my opinion of the 2015 version of the standard. My 18 years as a CB auditor is an indication that I have audited other versions of the standard. I do have many, many years experience in manufacturing and service as a worker, production manager, and quality manager. Once again My comment was an opinion only and I apologize if I upset or offended you.
 

yodon

Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
@Risky - I guess I'd be curious what you find unauditable? I think the concepts behind risk-based thinking and pushing companies to think more broadly (interested parties, etc.) have merit. To the point @Jen Kirley makes, it probably challenges auditors to think more about whether something is being effective for the company rather than focusing on records (which may have indicated compliance but may not necessarily have reflected quality health.
 

Mikey324

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
Here's my opinion, for what its worth. I actually like the changes made to ISO/IATF. Its very difficult to make a requirement so vague, that it will work in any organization (pretty tough for a 3rd party auditor i would imagine). As for me, I work in auto. I like the flexibility to do what works for my organization. Meeting a requirement on paper adds no value. These new revisions have given us more opportunity to look at the requirement and figure out how to put it in place in a beneficial way.
For my internal auditors, i tell them you just have to leave your opinion out of it. If its effective, and it meets the intent of the standard, then that's it. Is there a finding, do you have a requirement and objective evidence that it isn't being fulfilled? Every organization will not be able to comply to the requirements in the same way. That's impossible. So do we meet all requirements in the same way our 3rd party auditor would? Most likely not. Do we meet them in a way that is effective for our organization? I think so. Can we improve? Absolutely. If we are given the room to comply in a way that adds value, and makes our interested parties happy, isn't that what its all about at the end of the day?
 

Audit Coordinator

Involved In Discussions
#8
I've been auditing for a CB for 18 years. The ISO 9001:2015 version of the standard in my. opion is a step backwards. It. borders on being, again in my opinion, useless and not auditable.
I would concur as it has become much more vague but I am the type of auditor that prefers cut and dried for the beginning of the auditing journey. The feel free to venture off trail if the "spirit moves", within reason, of course.
 

Mikey324

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
I would concur as it has become much more vague but I am the type of auditor that prefers cut and dried for the beginning of the auditing journey. The feel free to venture off trail if the "spirit moves", within reason, of course.
Ah, wouldn't it be simple if it was cut and dry? But alas, that's not possible.
 
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