Job Descriptions - Records needed as evidence of the training?

[juliov]

Hello there quality guys,

I read many of the job descriptions postings here in the cove,
I have the following question that I could not find among all the postings and it is the following:

If a person lists in the job description that he/she has various training courses taken, will records be need as evidence of the training? and should they be included in their personnel file?
Or if the job descriptions requires a BA in Science and a person is hired, is it reasonable to assume that there should be a record to prove the BA in Science? I saw the above in a few job descriptions, I believe records should exist to provide objective evidence as to the competence of the individual in question, let me know your wise input, you covers.

 

[ScottK]

Re: job descriptions

Hello there quality guys,

I read many of the job descriptions postings here in the cove,
I have the following question that I could not find among all the postings and it is the following:

If a person lists in the job description that he/she has various training courses taken, will records be need as evidence of the training? and should they be included in their personnel file?
Or if the job descriptions requires a BA in Science and a person is hired, is it reasonable to assume that there should be a record to prove the BA in Science? I saw the above in a few job descriptions, I believe records should exist to provide objective evidence as to the competence of the individual in question, let me know your wise input, you covers.

If very specific training is required in order to make a hiring decision then an applicant should provide evidence. If the training occurs after hiring then the company's training process should document it.

as far as degrees, part of HR's job should be to check references. Especially if there is a doubt.
Personally, I've never been asked for proof of my degree. I have been asked for my cert numbers for ASQ certs, though.

 

[ScottK]

Re: job descriptions

Further -

We got an observation on our last CE marking surveillance that since I was a realtivey new hire and was new to this particular directive there wasn't a formal training program for me to fully take over the "Respobnsible Person" duties for that directive.

 

[Ajit Basrur]

Re: job descriptions

Hello there quality guys,

I read many of the job descriptions postings here in the cove,
I have the following question that I could not find among all the postings and it is the following:

If a person lists in the job description that he/she has various training courses taken, will records be need as evidence of the training? and should they be included in their personnel file?
Or if the job descriptions requires a BA in Science and a person is hired, is it reasonable to assume that there should be a record to prove the BA in Science? I saw the above in a few job descriptions, I believe records should exist to provide objective evidence as to the competence of the individual in question, let me know your wise input, you covers.

Job descriptions are lists of the general tasks, or functions, and responsibilities of a position. Typically, they also include to whom the position reports, specifications such as the qualifications needed by the person in the job, salary range for the position, etc. Job descriptions are usually developed by conducting a job analysis, which includes examining the tasks and sequences of tasks necessary to perform the job. The analysis looks at the areas of knowledge and skills needed by the job.

Thus Job Description serves as a guide or a frame work for getting new recruits.

The educational certificates required per JD's are obtained and forms a part of the Personnel File.

 

[Ted Schmitt]

Re: job descriptions

If a person lists in the job description that he/she has various training courses taken, will records be need as evidence of the training? and should they be included in their personnel file?

IMHO, yes... if the courses are applicable to his daily job and are proof of education, training, abilities and experience (see 6.2.2 e)... now if he lists something like tennis ball jugggling, then obviously not a required competence / ability for his job (unless he works at a circus )

Or if the job descriptions requires a BA in Science and a person is hired, is it reasonable to assume that there should be a record to prove the BA in Science?

Yes again... his college diploma should be enough...

 

[ralphsulser]

I have read many that list BS preffered or xx years of equivalent experience.
This does not eliminate qualified people from the job.

 

[juliov]

Re: job descriptions

Thanks Tedschmitt, is it reasonable to assume that an external auditor could ask to see these records as proof? during an ISO 9k2k audit?
Now, my personal opinion is that it would be best to list in the job description for example BA Science or XX years experience in the field, this option would give a better option to comply vs the BA diploma as only listed requirement.

We are trying to make sure that we cover training competence 6.2.2e and while reviewing the job descriptions we noted the above described and were not sure as to whether records were needed for new hires.

 

[Ted Schmitt]

Re: job descriptions

Thanks Tedschmitt, is it reasonable to assume that an external auditor could ask to see these records as proof? during an ISO 9k2k audit?

Glad to be of help. In regards to an external auditor asking for these records, yes, definetly...

Now, my personal opinion is that it would be best to list in the job description for example BA Science or XX years experience in the field, this option would give a better option to comply vs the BA diploma as only listed requirement.

I see no problem with that, in our case, if an employee does not meet the education requirement defined in the Job Description, we have a letter which is signed by the MR (me) "qualifying" the employee (based on his work experience) even though he does not meet the requirement in the Job Description... this letter is valid for X period of time in which the employee has time to fulfill the missing requirement. Our organization offers incentives for the employee to seek this missing qualification.

 

[Le Chiffre]

Re: job descriptions

Glad to be of help. In regards to an external auditor asking for these records, yes, definetly...

Wouldn't the record in this situation be the hiring manager's recommendation based on checking criteria such as training and educational certificates, not the actual certificate itself?

I've never had to go further than this although copies of the certificates are available, the hiring manager's signature is sufficient to show they exist.

 

[Ted Schmitt]

Re: job descriptions

Wouldn't the record in this situation be the hiring manager's recommendation based on checking criteria such as training and educational certificates, not the actual certificate itself?

I've never had to go further than this although copies of the certificates are available, the hiring manager's signature is sufficient to show they exist.

Our auditors (TUV) always ask for these documents.... if you have a system where the hiring manager signs a "check list" with requirements for the position, and if it is consistent and it works, then that should be OK too... I guess it depends on the system you have in place...