Job Descriptions - Should employees sign their job descriptions? Why or why not?

Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#11
The question is: documented proof of what?

Medical device regulations require signatures for various things. The signatures are there to provide proof of authorization or approval. For example, the US QSR's require:
Signatures of the individual(s) approving documents and changes to documents (proof of approval).
Signatures of the individual(s) approving design input requirements (proof of approval).
Signatures of the individual(s) approving design outputs (proof of approval).
Signatures of the individual(s) approving validation of processes (proof of approval).
Signatures of the individual(s) conducting acceptance activities (proof of acceptance).
Signatures of the individual(s) perfoming labeling examination or accuracy (proof of review and approval).
Signatures of the individual(s) authorizing release of finished goods (proof of authorized release).
Signatures of the individual(s) authorizing use of nonconforming product (proof of authorized use).

All of these required signatures are for authorization or approval. Does it make sense for each employee to authorize or approve their own job descriptions? I personally don't think so.
By taking signature on his Job Description, I can show that the employee has been made aware of his / her responsibilities.
 
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Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#12
By taking signature on his Job Description, I can show that the employee has been made aware of his / her responsibilities.
Frankly, I go along with Jennifer and Howste - signing the document only shows proof the individual can sign his name. It doesn't prove competence. It doesn't prove the person understands what he signed (lots of employees are intimidated to the point they will sign ANYTHING put forward by a boss!) Signing also makes people very wary - they are often paranoid the bosses will make them the goat for any shortcomings.

Howste has raised the ISO 13485 spectre, I can attest FHA no longer lets a boss push off responsibility on to a low ranking subordinate.

The whole idea of Sarbannes Oxley is that bosses are responsible. In my travels, I've seen lot of instances where the work instructions were written like 19th century legal documents with lots of whereas and heretofor and other gobbledygook no one understood (especially the bosses), but the employees signed off on statements they understood the instructions and would follow them. Heck! I couldn't understand them with a PhD, how on earth were barely literate ESL folks able to understand them?

To agree to requirement for signing, I would have to see a solid business reason and some empirical data the folks signing indeed could paraphrase and then a practical exam they could perform what they had signed even 2 hours after they signed, let alone two weeks or months or years!
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#13
Frankly, I go along with Jennifer and Howste - signing the document only shows proof the individual can sign his name. It doesn't prove competence. It doesn't prove the person understands what he signed (lots of employees are intimidated to the point they will sign ANYTHING put forward by a boss!) Signing also makes people very wary - they are often paranoid the bosses will make them the goat for any shortcomings.

Howste has raised the ISO 13485 spectre, I can attest FHA no longer lets a boss push off responsibility on to a low ranking subordinate.

The whole idea of Sarbannes Oxley is that bosses are responsible. In my travels, I've seen lot of instances where the work instructions were written like 19th century legal documents with lots of whereas and heretofor and other gobbledygook no one understood (especially the bosses), but the employees signed off on statements they understood the instructions and would follow them. Heck! I couldn't understand them with a PhD, how on earth were barely literate ESL folks able to understand them?

To agree to requirement for signing, I would have to see a solid business reason and some empirical data the folks signing indeed could paraphrase and then a practical exam they could perform what they had signed even 2 hours after they signed, let alone two weeks or months or years!
Good Points! The sole reason for requiring employees to sign any document is to cover Bosses' asses when it's employee trouble time. It pleases the lawyers...

Stijloor.
 

hogheavenfarm

Quite Involved in Discussions
#14
In all of the descriptions I have seen , it is the clause at the end , that usually says something like ..." and all other duties as assigned..." which causes much of the problem. I wouldn't sign such a description. While I agree not all duties can be foreseen, this clause leaves the boss with a free ride...
 
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ply9901

#15
Im in sales we are being asked to sign a job description that says in it "attain monthly , quarterly and annual sales goals. I look at that as an enforceable reason to be fired if those goals arent met.. Right , wrong..
 

TPMB4

Quite Involved in Discussions
#16
Sign a contract not a job description. If you sign an employment contract it has substance but a job description? Why? Signature does not equate to competence or understanding as others said.

Past companies with induction programmes have required me to sign a document saying that I had been in an induction programme. The signature there was all about the boss collecting an agreement from me that I had gone through the induction, that I had been given opportunity to ask questions, that I had been given a copy of the company rule book, had a copy of my job description and had signed my contract then received a copy for my records. At no point does that signed document require me to understand anything nor have any competencies. It was just about the HR having a record that my boss had done his job or part of the signing on of an employee under his supervision.

Bosses covering their behinds... that is kind of what these paper signing things seem to be about IMHO. Waste of paper in a lot of cases and I doubt they have much validity in law too.
 
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ply9901

#17
So if I follow, since this is described as a job description, not a contract, if I sign it these details such as the line "attain monthly, quarterly, annual goals". Though HR says that that not signing it doesn't release me from my duties and responsibilities. I'm concerned that the comment about if I didn't make any of those goals would that be cause for termination.
It sounds as if it really doesn't matter if I sign it because it's not a contract, just a job description.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#18
So if I follow, since this is described as a job description, not a contract, if I sign it these details such as the line "attain monthly, quarterly, annual goals". Though HR says that that not signing it doesn't release me from my duties and responsibilities. I'm concerned that the comment about if I didn't make any of those goals would that be cause for termination.
It sounds as if it really doesn't matter if I sign it because it's not a contract, just a job description.
It almost sounds as though they are trying to use the job description as an employee performance plan, A Dogbert HR method (in my not-so-humble opinion). And while it's true that if you don't meet your sales goals it may be possible they would let you go, but it wouldn't be because you signed a job description. It would be because you did not meet goals.

But if you were let go purely on such a basis, without consideration of the cause(s) or an attempt to improve via a methodical development approach, I would frankly question if I wanted to stay with this employer.
 
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ply9901

#19
I beleive that I will sign it as it really cant be held over me, and that was my concern, as if I'm signing a contract. but I beleive I will sign it and add an attachment explainig my concerns. In sales we are all judged my sales numbers, like you said to use this singly would not be correct. FYI all of the sales people at one time or another are below goals.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#20
I have concerns about your adding an attachment explaining your concerns.

If they are going to let a sales person go simply for not meeting goals, your attachment won't help.

Also, in my view, a group that would ask for this would likely misunderstand what you are describing and, in doing so the wrong message would be received by them.

I am interested in whether there is a statement saying "I understand" or something similar that describes what your signature is affirming understanding/agreeing to exactly. Can you provide that?
 
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