Kap.4.3 Determining the scope

Qualygirl

Involved In Discussions
#1
Hello;
I am looking for concrete formulations; requirements for the scope according to ISO 9001 and 14001.
What goes in there?
I know the wording in the standard.
But how is the concrete documented implementation?
Good examples
Thanks
 
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John Broomfield

Leader
Super Moderator
#2
The scope of your management system describes the extent to which it is applicable. The extent is usually defined in terms of location(s), services and products (or realization processes).

The scope of your system certification is usually the same but may be narrower than the scope of your management system.

Knowing the extent to which certification is a requirement or is becoming a requirement means your sales team may be able to help with this.

For example:

“Advice, design, manufacture and delivery of heat pumps for the home improvement industry on client premises and facilities based at <address>.

…a company wishing to exclude advice from certification could define its certification scope as:

“Design, manufacture and delivery of heat pumps for the home improvement industry on client premises and facilities based at <address>.”
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#4
Hello
I once presented my current table of contents on the subject of Chapter 4.3 Application Report Process -Annex.
I would be very happy to hear your opinion ;suggestions:
LG
Nice but not really what's needed. All one simply has to do is say what they intend to manage with the particular management system. Nobody is asking for a Master's Dissertation, a long protracted document or anything more complicated than "we will be managing this and these are the boundaries". Don't paint yourself into a corner with a whole lot of words, promises and gobblety-goop that indicate an intention to manage the world and everything in and around it.
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Leader
Admin
#5
Here are a few scope examples:
  • Development and Manufacturing of xyz product and Remanufacturing Service; Manufacture of xxx Components
  • The design, development, manufacture, remanufacture, repair, integration, and support of industrial xxx components, software, systems, solutions, and services.
As Randy said, these should be concise.
 

Qualygirl

Involved In Discussions
#6
Hello
Unfortunately, the well-intentioned advice is not what I had hoped for.
Is probably also because of my too imprecise question
I am concerned with Chapter 4.3 of ISO 9001 +14000
In the ISO 14001 the requirement m.e. but much broader
I wanted to summarize the requirements and am looking for a corresponding document.
Please
LG
 

John Broomfield

Leader
Super Moderator
#7
“wanted to summarize the requirements”

Why are you summarizing the requirements from the system standards in your management system documents?

If it must be documented, simply describe your organization’s system for your colleagues.

And never write anything especially for auditors,
 

Qualygirl

Involved In Discussions
#8
Hello
I'm not sure how I should/must deal with the recommendations for creating the required document for Chapter 4.3 "Definition of the area of application" in accordance with the requirements of ISO 9001 and ISO 14001.
Please provide a documented proposal on how this is implemented in a small company.
Thanks

The document must also be understood internally, which is required here
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#9
Hey' you're getting all wrapped around the axle with the phrasing " the organization shall consider...." and you're trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

The word “consider” means it is necessary to think about the topic but it can be excluded; That's all, nothing more and that's how the ISO defines it and an auditor cannot raise his expectation beyond it...Did you think about "it" (discuss, talk, look, study, analyze, whatever) YES or NO

Look, all you absolutely "HAVE" to do is document what you specifically intend to manage with your system such as (nothing following is confidential, it's all publicly available) "The scope of XXX Integrated Management system (IMS) includes the business processes for managing and operating XXX, encompassing all underlying assets including, facilities, people, processes and tools to ensure quality, safety, environmental sustainability, energy efficiency, security and availability" or "Donor recruitment, collection, donor testing, manufacturing, storage, and distribution of xxx derived biologic products and xxx cellular tissue products and business support services."

Also be specific as to where this would happen (the real physical, brick & mortar address)

What do you do?
What are you intending to manage?
Where are you going to do it?
 
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