Keeping an External Auditor on because he's "useless"...

[qualitymoron]

How good terms are you on with your customers? Is there anyone you feel would be sympathetic enough to contact your certification body?
Couldn't you get in touch with the certification body anonymously?
Hell send me your details I'll do it!


Seriously though, I asked a certification body auditor once if anyone had ever bribed him and he replied they'd tried. He told them an obscene amount of money and when they questionned it he told them he'd have to have enough to retire on.

Is the auditor pally with someone in the company?

 

[Bifften]

I think thats going a little off track, qualitymoron, I don't think there is anything that sinister going on and I'm not out to deliberately cause trouble

 

[mkaganov]

Phil,

As a pro lead auditor with 12 years of experience with five major registrars, I can assure you your situation is not that uncommon. I have seen “blind” auditors and I have seen companies that were happy with them. In my opinion it is a waste of time. Since your management chose to benefit from your auditor, it is a business decision and I am afraid you will need to choose between what is right and what company to work for. If you convince your management that there is an economical benefit in a well greased QMS, and decide to have a very good auditor, drop me a line at quality-works.
Mark

 

[Sandra Gauvin]

It's unfortunate, but I've seen several companies seek ISO certification just for marketing purposes. More time is spent on creating the illusion of a Quality System than actually doing what's right.

 

[JaneB]

As other posters, including a couple of practising auditors, have already said, your situation is (unfortunately) not uncommon.

I also think that it may well be a waste of time attempting to get a change of auditor. Unless management are equally as convinced as you are about the need and the benefits, it's most unlikely to happen. (It's comparatively human to keep going with the prevailing situation, and if they're happy with it as is, they're not going to change.)

My experience has mirrored the advice given you by Stijloor and by Qualitymoron.

I now have that 'job I love', working for myself. I've also had the experience on several occasions at working for other people in jobs I loved, and there's simply no comparison. It's frustrating working in a situation where your values aren't shared, where the culture of the organisation just isn't one you resonate with.

But I couldn't have ultimately reached this job I love without having some of the negative experiences, and seeing the consequences of similar short-sighted attitudes and decisions. Not to mention filling out the CV.

Ultimately, "they" at your firm almost certainly won't change. But you can. And even poor experiences can be useful, depending on how you think about them, what you choose to learn from them and how you respond to them.

 

[Sandra Gauvin]

As other posters, including a couple of practising auditors, have already said, your situation is (unfortunately) not uncommon.

I also think that it may well be a waste of time attempting to get a change of auditor. Unless management are equally as convinced as you are about the need and the benefits, it's most unlikely to happen. (It's comparatively human to keep going with the prevailing situation, and if they're happy with it as is, they're not going to change.)

My experience has mirrored the advice given you by Stijloor and by Qualitymoron.

I now have that 'job I love', working for myself. I've also had the experience on several occasions at working for other people in jobs I loved, and there's simply no comparison. It's frustrating working in a situation where your values aren't shared, where the culture of the organisation just isn't one you resonate with.

But I couldn't have ultimately reached this job I love without having some of the negative experiences, and seeing the consequences of similar short-sighted attitudes and decisions. Not to mention filling out the CV.

Ultimately, "they" at your firm almost certainly won't change. But you can. And even poor experiences can be useful, depending on how you think about them, what you choose to learn from them and how you respond to them.

Very wise advice!....Sandra

 

[Helmut Jilling]

It's unfortunate, but I've seen several companies seek ISO certification just for marketing purposes. More time is spent on creating the illusion of a Quality System than actually doing what's right.

Yes, sadly, but bad economies gradullay weed out many of these companies.

There are three kinds of companies:
Those That Make Things Happen,
Those That Watch Things Happen,
Those That Wake Up and ASK, "What Happened?"

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Yes, sadly, but bad economies gradullay weed out many of these companies.

While that might be true, the fact is a facade certificate creates problems for many stakeholders. If an organization wants to pretend to have a QMS in place, it is their problem. When a CB becomes an accomplice of the deceit and certifies they have one, the problem is deeper, because the whole concept of system certification and it's credibility is at stake.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

While that might be true, the fact is a facade certificate creates problems for many stakeholders. If an organization wants to pretend to have a QMS in place, it is their problem. When a CB becomes an accomplice of the deceit and certifies they have one, the problem is deeper, because the whole concept of system certification and it's credibility is at stake.

Absolutely agree with that. That should be one of their primary focuses, not beating up on the good guys. If everyone seems to knwo the bad guys, why don't they?

 

[Weiner Dog]

If the company manufactured/ sold products regulated by the FDA in the US, you'd get inspected (not audited) by the US FDA. An FDA inspection differs from an ISO audit. This would truly be a wakeup call to management, especially if US sales keep the company afloat.