KPIs: Two for every core process?

[Big Jim]

It's not just the auditors that are making up their own rules. It is also the CBs and ABs. It might be very charitable to say they are simply stretching the rules.

 

[mattador78]

My view on KPI's if it doesnt add value dont use it. Otherwise its just a chart that means nothing I have discussed with auditors previously about our KPI's and i will not add anymore than we have as they wouldnt show any benefit, we are AS9100 and i dont have 2 KPI's for each process. One i was discussing was succeful/unsuccesful quote ratio, we dont record it as the price is the price if we aint won it we move on.

 

[Randy]

Would that be “easier to follow”?

A Rube Goldberg design probably.

It is also the CBs and ABs. It might be very charitable to say they are simply stretching the rules.

Yeah, to a certain degree, and then again, if the language or some requirement is in the "Quote" or "Contract instrument" and it was agreed to and signed, then the "requirement" is binding and valid. More often than not, the signers of the "Quote or contract instrument" are not the same ones being audited and that becomes more fuel to support a NC of poor internal communication..........Left hand not telling the right hand what the *ell is required..........Where have I seen that before?

 

[Bev D]

That’s still pretty sneaky. And I’m a big advocate for metrics (appropriate, insightful and properly managed).

 

[schaeen]

I hope that something got muddled up in discussions here..... from what our AS9100 auditor said, I believe it is one KPI per process, but they are looking for two KPIs per functional area - e.g. two KPIs in Production, 2 in Sales, 2 in Stores etc

Thank you for clarifying. I struggle to disentangle processes from functional areas; we've been using the terms interchangeably in my company. So, the auditor is looking for two KPIs per functional area. Which begs my question, from what authority are they requiring two KPIs? Also, can you confirm that your company is required to have one time-based and one quality-based KPI per functional area - for a total of two KPIs? Or is it just any two KPIs?

 

[Randy]

So, the auditor is looking for two KPIs per functional area.

Now the question comes up...........What exactly is a "functional area"? (especially as defined or understood by the auditor). Again, "Show me the shall or get your a** out of the building".

This is another area where things can get really stupid really fast because your idea of a functional area might be 180degrees from mine. I just recently audited a client that had been subjected to this exact topic a couple years ago, a small 36 person plant with 40+ kpi's, most of which were not quality, product or customer satisfaction related. Why? Because they had been "required" to monitor & measure everything but how many times a day people took a dump causing a reduction in efficiency. (I'm kidding, but that's how it felt to me).

 

[Big Jim]

I've mentioned it before, and I still laugh about it. Before PEARs were introduced auditors tended to encourage complex interaction of process (IOP) descriptions with great detail. Much more than the standard actually required. Then when auditors were told that they had to complete a PEAR for every process, suddenly they were encouraging much simpler IOPs.

So, I wonder if this new concern about functions and having KPI for functions is a pendulum swing in response to simplified IOPs.

The more things change, at least in some ways, the more they stay the same.

 

[Randy]

So, I wonder if this new concern about functions and having KPI for functions is a pendulum swing in response to simplified IOPs.

I wonder what real tangibles contribute to automobile or aircraft quality with all this KPI whatever?

 

[Kronos147]

...they are looking for two KPIs per functional area...

...What exactly is a "functional area"? (especially as defined or understood by the auditor). Again, "Show me the shall or get your a** out of the building".

Randy and I focused on the same thing here. He beat me to it. I look at this as a case of "great minds think alike."


Also as Randy suggests, ask the auditor to read you the shall. When they can't, just state "that is a really good opportunity for improvement. I will have to discuss this with top management" and drop it. If the auditor does not drop it, THEN I would ask the auditor to call their manager. Ask their manager where the shall is. After going that far, kicking their behind out of the building is justified.

 

[Randy]

ask the auditor to read you the shall. When they can't, just state "that is a really good opportunity for improvement. I will have to discuss this with top management" and drop it. If the auditor does not drop it, THEN I would ask the auditor to call their manager. Ask their manager where the shall is. After going that far, kicking their behind out of the building is justified.

In my past life we we're allowed to fire warning shots, it was either "Halt or call the ambulance"