Lacking Documentation of Customer Requirements, what do I need?

[djbeatsent]

Re: Lacking Documentation of customer requirements, what do I need?!

OK, so if you recieve an order for p/n 123456 you must then already have processes in-place to produce it (tooling, materials, production, QA, etc.) that are related to this specific part. This would more than likely be because you have made it before (which is were I was driving at earlier, ensure you record what & how you made it so you can retreive that data if made again in the future).

If you already have a qualified part, then the customer is simply ordering a p/n they pulled from somewhere. There is no need at that point for specific "customer" requirements (related to the actual product itself) if the item is a repeat.

Inspect it the same way you did before (again, if ordered regularly it may be an added value to create specific testing methods and/or inspection sheets) and you are demonstrating conformity. All you need to do is ensure that the product your producing meets the requirements & characteristics of p/n 123456 & your good.

OK I understand what you are saying but my question still remains, if the customer did not supply ANY quality requirements EVER (we decided on material, etc, etc, and they approved part), than am I safe when the auditor comes?

 

[Jason PCSwitches]

Re: Lacking Documentation of customer requirements, what do I need?!

OK I understand what you are saying but my question still remains, if the customer did not supply ANY quality requirements EVER (we decided on material, etc, etc, and they approved part), than am I safe when the auditor comes?

I don't understand how they can place an order without giving you something??

If they just said we need a molded part that can do this xxx, and you made a sample/prototype and they then approved it, your good as long as you have records. You designed & developed the part, they approved it and placed an order. Inspect it to the criteria you develop to ensure conformity and that should be that.

If they provided you with any specifics those should be addressed as well.

Am I getting warm

 

[treesei]

Re: Lacking Documentation of customer requirements, what do I need?!

OK I understand what you are saying but my question still remains, if the customer did not supply ANY quality requirements EVER (we decided on material, etc, etc, and they approved part), than am I safe when the auditor comes?

After all the "rubbery" issues are resolved, I assume there is a time at which all tooling, materials, process specs, inspection methods etc are finalized and a batch is run. I also assume that you have records for all of that. Then the customer looks at the produced part (may I call it first article?) and approves it. You will record the approval. From then on, if the customer orders 20,000, I assume you will make them using the exact tooling, materials, process specs, and inspection methods as you did with the first run. If you keep records to show that all 20,000 parts are manufactured and inspected in the same way as the first run and pass all same acceptance criteria as the first article, I would think you are pretty safe with an auditor.

To protect myself further, if a customer does not supply any quality requriements and I produced all drawings, quality inspection plans, process charts etc, I would send them all to the customer with my first article to get a "package approval".

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Lacking Documentation of customer requirements, what do I need?!

OK I understand what you are saying but my question still remains, if the customer did not supply ANY quality requirements EVER (we decided on material, etc, etc, and they approved part), than am I safe when the auditor comes?

The customer has given you requirements. Are you working via clairvoyance? Even if all the customer says is "I need a fuzzy blue thing," and you give them one, you've satisfied the requirements. It shouldn't take much effort, once you've defined the requirements, to write them down--no matter how ridiculous it might appear--and have the customer sign off.

 

[djbeatsent]

Re: Lacking Documentation of customer requirements, what do I need?!

Looks like what I can do to protect myself and the company is to do exactly what you guys are saying. I will just come up with a form for customers lacking drawings and will write down the verbal requirements (no matter how ridiculous) and send them a copy to sign off on. I am fairly new to ISO so everyone's input is very much appreciated!

 

[Jason PCSwitches]

Re: Lacking Documentation of customer requirements, what do I need?!

Looks like what I can do to protect myself and the company is to do exactly what you guys are saying. I will just come up with a form for customers lacking drawings and will write down the verbal requirements (no matter how ridiculous) and send them a copy to sign off on. I am fairly new to ISO so everyone's input is very much appreciated!

What I'm still having a hard time understanding is how you can develop a mold insert for a particular part that a customer orders when they don't give you any specifications. If I wanted a "blue fuzzy thing" and that's all I told you, how do you determine the characteristics of the mold insert you need to make to produce the part? As I'm sure your aware of tool making isn't a fast & cheap process. There has to be more to this, and if not, your organization should add a fortune telling charge to quotes.

It still seems that something is missing here somewhere. Than again it could be me....

 

[dkusleika]

Re: Lacking Documentation of customer requirements, what do I need?!

I wouldn't over think this. Just document what your customer says and what he implies and create your requirements doc. If your customer brings in a battery terminal and says "I need a plastic cover for this.", then you already have a preliminary reqs doc.

1. Must be at least .5" in diameter (to fit over terminal)
2. Must be at least 1.1" deep (to fit over terminal)
3. Must be plastic (specific customer requirement)
4. Must be insulative (implied customer requirement because he said it was for a battery)

As your CAD guys make assumptions, add those assumptions to the list. That's it. Take the sample to the customer, he tells you it's too rubbery. Go back to your reqs doc, cross out #3 and write

3. Must be Dupont Plastic #47

Take the next sample back to your customer and he says they need a small flair at the edge. Go back to reqs document and write

5. Must have at least 1mm flair at edge

Once the customer says it's good, you can have them sign off on the reqs doc or not. It's not required, only that you review customer requirements, which you clearly have done by creating this doc. Now you have five requirements for your V&V testing.

 

[JaneB]

Re: Lacking Documentation of customer requirements, what do I need?!

There's a difference, surely, between creating a prototype (on flimsy/very sketchy requirements) and doing a production run of 20,000 once the prototype is agreed?

I don't see that you need to get the 'customer to sign off on' the prototype requirements if they're pretty flimsy, unless it adds some value to the whole process, even if that is to protect you from risk. I do not see the argument 'it keeps our auditor happy' as one that adds value, by the way.

If you're doing a prototype, then you're doing a prototype. And going back to the requirements document each time and writing something on to it and then getting the customer to sign off on that? If I were a customer, at this point I might be thinking of finding someone who can do it with a bit less bureaucracy. I do understand the need to capture customer requirements... but not everything has to be writtendown. If it's effectively captured into the prototype model, and that process is working well, then I'd use the prototype itself as the agreed customer requirements and focus on control at that point.

Sounds a bit like a trial and error/iterative design process... similar things happen in the IT world. And writing down everything and getting everything signed off one itty bitty step at a time? Surely sounds like over-control to me.