Language used for writing a Quality Manual

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J

JaneB

#22
With the advent of the 2000 (2008) version this structure is even less relevant and should be avoided.......
Agree with you Andy. The pyramid thingy can be sort of OK in some cases... but it can make for problems, and most especially when applied too rigidly. Do what works for you. I know that can sound hard for some people who want a 'do it exactly like this' answer, but ultimately it works out better.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#24
It's an outmoded concept, or should be. Of course the QM is the source, but it doesn't really matter if there's a distinction (for example) between "procedures" and work instructions. So long as the documents (and forms) that need to be controlled are controlled, and in compliance with the standard, the "pyramid" doesn't help much, imo.
I'll add my agreement. It is outmoded. And, even in the previous version of ISO, it was rarely applied appropriately.

Think about it:
The only situation where that model that made sense was a very large organization - Corporate management wrote broad policies, Division management wrote general procedures to implement the corporate policies, and finally plant management wrote specific instructions as to how they will meet all those mandates. It makes sense in that scenario.

Was it ever logical that one group would sit down, write a vague quality manual that copied the standard word-for-word, write vague procedures which had little meaningful content, then finally write work instructions which people actually used? Yet, that is what happened in many companies, and the QM and procedures were rarely actually used.

I now encourage folks to do two levels - write a quality manual (level one), and supplement it with whatever "documents" (level 2) are needed to run the company (ref. cl 4.2.1.c&d). That would include the mandatory procedures, forms, instructions, databases, etc.

A much simpler approach, and eliminates redundancy.
 
#26
When reviewed as a whole, many of the (recent) posts here make me think that the RABQSA missed a great opportunity to develop criteria for QMS documentation developers. A lot of emphasis is placed on auditors and auditing, which is a bit like putting your best people at the end of the line to 'inspect in' quality! How about doing something to qualify the 'design' and 'production' people too? Perhaps this is an (obvious) example of where the 'authorities' are out of step with the needs of the customer and marketplace......

Clearly, the competencies to develop, construct, implement, control and maintain an effective, compliant and value added quality management system documentation is being missed in much of the training provided to date!

I wonder if anyone at the RABQSA could develop a 'stimulus package' and get training providers to develop accredited training on this important topic! There's obviously a need!
 
Last edited:
J

JaneB

#27
One problem I think is that the ability to write clearly and well and succinctly is not highly valued, or the ability to make documentation 'user-friendly' and useful.

There's a tendency to think that 'anyone' can do this stuff and that anyone can write stuff. Not true.
 
Q

qualitymanager

#28
Why would you feel compelled to refer to them as "L1" and "L4"? For your example, there's no need (A) to have a record of the appointment and (B)to give the record a name other than "record."
To stay in the context of the documentation pyramid and this discussion.

In practice I don't talk about documentation levels (in a rigid hierarchy) when consulting - just the documents ("procedure", "work instruction", etc.).
 
B

bubonic

#29
Re: Language used for writing Quality Manual

I'm not brave enough to do it myself yet, but I liked the firm that has the title of their Quality Manual "How We Do Things" .......... I understand the assessment body accepted it!
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#30
Re: Language used for writing Quality Manual

I'm not brave enough to do it myself yet, but I liked the firm that has the title of their Quality Manual "How We Do Things" .......... I understand the assessment body accepted it!
No bravery required. You can call your manual "War and Peace" or "Dick and Jane do ISO 9001," or whatever else you can think of. It's your manual.
 
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