Layouts : Can you "verify" things that are not visible (such as loctite present, internal dimensions) in a layout ?

ezekieltemple

Starting to get Involved
#1
Our quality lab is being asked to "bubble" and "verify" notes on a drawing for items that we do not have the machinery / capability to confirm nor test.
For example:
1) "Item A inserted to full depth before welding into Item B"."
2) Welds "complying with requirements of AWS 01.3" (no one in our quality lab has received training on welding nor welding standards)
3) "All parts comply with CEMS B-50 for restricted chemical substances."
4) All plating per CEMS G-20, Class 6A

Any suggestions for how to handle each of the above 5 requirements in a PPAP bubbled layout for the customer...?
(How you would reply to the customer - or rather how would you handle completing such a layout?)
(How you would reply to your own company's design engineers about them requesting your lab to verify things that you are not capable of verifying?)
 
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Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Our quality lab is being asked to "bubble" and "verify" notes on a drawing for items that we do not have the machinery / capability to confirm nor test.
For example:
1) "Item A inserted to full depth before welding into Item B"."
2) Welds "complying with requirements of AWS 01.3" (no one in our quality lab has received training on welding nor welding standards)
3) "All parts comply with CEMS B-50 for restricted chemical substances."
4) All plating per CEMS G-20, Class 6A

Any suggestions for how to handle each of the above 5 requirements in a PPAP bubbled layout for the customer...?
(How you would reply to the customer - or rather how would you handle completing such a layout?)
(How you would reply to your own company's design engineers about them requesting your lab to verify things that you are not capable of verifying?)
Is your organization the manufacturer or just a 3rd party lab contracted to verify the results?

If the organization is just the lab hired to perform the testing, than I would guess that a destructive/nondestructive test would be part of the verification for the weld. I would suggest that you get a copy of the requirements before performing the validation. The plating could be based upon the Certificate received from the one that performed the plating would be sufficient if you have confidence with that supplier. The restricted chemicals, the supplier should furnish that information. If any of these can't be validated as built, than you would need some statistical data to support this.

Just my suggestions.
 

Emmyd

Involved In Discussions
#3
Our quality lab is being asked to "bubble" and "verify" notes on a drawing for items that we do not have the machinery / capability to confirm nor test.
For example:
1) "Item A inserted to full depth before welding into Item B"."
2) Welds "complying with requirements of AWS 01.3" (no one in our quality lab has received training on welding nor welding standards)
3) "All parts comply with CEMS B-50 for restricted chemical substances."
4) All plating per CEMS G-20, Class 6A

Any suggestions for how to handle each of the above 5 requirements in a PPAP bubbled layout for the customer...?
(How you would reply to the customer - or rather how would you handle completing such a layout?)
(How you would reply to your own company's design engineers about them requesting your lab to verify things that you are not capable of verifying?)
This is most likely a request from your customers - we have customers who require ballooning and checking of every callout on the print of us.

For # 1, check to see if you have poke yokes at your weld cell to ensure that the item A is inserted to full depth. If you do, then put that on the layout.
Item # 2 - this standard should have been reviewed prior to accepting this job. If you don't have this standard, get a copy and read it. You may have to perform special etch tests or cut samples for review under a microscope. Then it's up to your company to decide to do in house or out source.
For item 3 & 4, your suppliers should include certs that show the parts meet these specs.

When we do any kind of print review for feasibility at my facility, we note any standards that we don't have. We will either then request copies or purchase them for review before accepting the job. Otherwise, you can open up Pandora's box with new requirements that come from those standards.

Hope this helps some!
 
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