Interesting Discussion Lean Manufacturing Concepts - Is 'Lean' hype?

[Jim Wynne]

Holy Cow, did I just jump on a pedestal?

Sorry, sometimes I get carried away by my passion.

There's nothing wrong with passion, my friend, so long as it's not directed at the maid .

 

[asutherland]

Mike, my appologies, I seem to have gotten a little off track.

Most companies I run into based on your description are usually ready to implement lean because they are ready to go under. I hope this is not the case with you.

Where to start..... 1st.. start of a brief presentation on why it is necessary to change.
2nd start a 5 S program... start with one area " Island of excellence".

One of the best books I have seen on this is called "Putting 5S to work, A Practical Step-by-Step Approach" by Hiroyuki Hirano... Published by PHP Institute, Inc.
There is a lot of generic stuff out there... this one isn't one of them.

(No I am not a sponser of supporter of this publishing house).

You should find significant savings in applying the applications of this program to support additional training in other Lean activities.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Among the many reasons that 5S implementation might stumble is that it has its roots not in Japanese manufacturing, but in Japanese culture. The S's stand for Japanese words which, when transliterated, begin with "S," and a reasonable attempt has been made to match them with equivalent English words which also start with "S." But the problem is that simple translation or transliteration does nothing to convey the cultural meaning of the words.

For example, one of the S's is seiso, which in direct translation means "clean," (although a closer idiomatic translation would be "pure" or "purity"). The English S-word is "shine." The problem is that physical cleanliness in the Shinto culture is closely tied to spiritual purity, so having "pure" surroundings and person are religiously and culturally much more significant than they are in Western culture. It's easy to see why seiso has a significance in Japanese culture that gets lost in translation--we don't make the connection between workplace cleanliness and spiritual purity.
The equivalent would be taking a group of people who have had no exposure to Judaism and asking them suddenly to observe Jewish dietary laws in hopes that they will produce fewer rejects as a result.

 

[Randy Stewart]

Culture, that's the key there. Both corporate or national, it sets the course.
One thing to remember here, make sure you review the entire process before kicking it off. Let me explain: All processes require inputs to work. If you can not control the quantity or quality of the input your process can not function to its fullest. Notice I didn't say fail, the process can still function properly just not up to the intended scope. That is where I have seen a bunch of programs fall on their face - especially when people are looking for it to fail. All they have to do then is point at that one issue and all trust is lost. No more changes.
For the longest time our culture stated that if 1 is good then 2 is better and 10 would be great. 1 may be good and 2 may be better, but 10 is probably an excess and costing money to store and maintain.

 

[Dave Dunn]

For the longest time our culture stated that if 1 is good then 2 is better and 10 would be great. 1 may be good and 2 may be better, but 10 is probably an excess and costing money to store and maintain.

"If it works well with four wheels, just think how well it would work with 20!"

 

[asutherland]

"Among the many reasons that 5S implementation might stumble is that it has its roots not in Japanese manufacturing, but in Japanese culture."

Hummmm,
I am not able to agree with this.

How is it that we know, when driving down the road, what side of the road to be on?
When I am driving, how is it I know how fast I am to go?
How is it, that junk yards can not be placed in the middle of the road?
How is it that I know, when and when not to pass another car?

I dont agree that visual control, orderleness, and good housekeeping is a cultural product.

 

[Jim Wynne]

"Among the many reasons that 5S implementation might stumble is that it has its roots not in Japanese manufacturing, but in Japanese culture."

Hummmm,
I am not able to agree with this.

How is it that we know, when driving down the road, what side of the road to be on?
When I am driving, how is it I know how fast I am to go?
How is it, that junk yards can not be placed in the middle of the road?
How is it that I know, when and when not to pass another car?

I dont agree that visual control, orderleness, and good housekeeping is a cultural product.

In responding with what is essentially a string of non sequiturs, you help to make my point. Our expectation of certain behaviors on the road is largely a cultural phenomenon. In some other countries, American drivers are like lambs being led to the slaughter because the native cultures (and law enforcement systems, which are cultural phenomena) don't recognize our more orderly ways of highway navigation. In Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam (the former Saigon) foreigners aren't even allowed to drive because the traffic is so out of control and crazy.

Note that I didn't say that 5S is a bad idea, or that it's not possible to implement a 5S program and get good results. What I said was that the failure to understand the cultural roots of the idea can be a barrier to implementation. If you think that American workers are motivated by the same stimuli and incentives as Japanese workers, then you simply don't understand the significance of ethnic culture.

 

[asutherland]

hummmm,
I appear to be miss-communicating. I simply ment to imply that I do not agree that successful 5S implementation has anything to do with the fact that the interpretation of 5S from a Japanese culture to an American culture will cause stumbling.

I do not find any cultural significance to a stop sign, regardless to what country it is in. (as long as the spelling or symbolism is in that countries language).

Whether I am Japanese and I think seiso means to be "pure", or if I am American and I think shine means "nothing is dirty". The main point is not in semantics but in action.

I don't want to make the "Mr. Clean" guy a demigod, I just dont want him to leave streaks.

 

[Jim Wynne]

I do not find any cultural significance to a stop sign, regardless to what country it is in. (as long as the spelling or symbolism is in that countries language).

There is nothing inherently cultural about a stop sign. It's how we react to stop signs that's important.

Whether I am Japanese and I think seiso means to be "pure", or if I am American and I think shine means "nothing is dirty". The main point is not in semantics but in action.

Semantics is significant, especially when the rules of different languages are applied. The 5S concept was designed with Japanese culture in mind. "Seiso" doesn't mean the same thing to a Japanese person that "shine" does to an American. Americans, by and large, do not relate workplace cleanliness with spiritual purity. Thus it's at least theoretically easier in Japanese culture to tie all of the S's together in a more meaningful way to the individual.

My point, and I did have one, was that there is no reason to believe that what is successful in employee motivation in one culture will be successful in another, and if there is a particular strategy that is successful because of cultural factors, care must be taken in the translation or transfer of the strategy to another culture.

 

[tarheels4 - 2007]

There is nothing inherently cultural about a stop sign. It's how we react to stop signs that's important.

I would hope that all reasonable human beings would treat to a stop sign in the same way. Apply breaks until coming to a full stop (if cops are around, otherwise do the rolling stop).