Interesting Discussion Lean Manufacturing Concepts - Is 'Lean' hype?

[Helmut Jilling]

There is an actual difference between batch and queue manufacturing and Toyota Production System - or as Womack named it - Lean. and it's not "common sense". And lean is not "tiger teams" or "Quality circles"...LEan is a methodology to manufacturing not merely a goal.

...Lean. and it's not "common sense".

I am not so sure. We give it new titles, and new versions, and that is good. But the principles are not new, they are different flavors of applied common sense. Though, I might agree, it not not so "common."

However, I applaud any efforts that strive to improve quality and efficiancy. But, I intuitively did a lot of this stuff in the 70's, before I knew it had a name, let alone was a program. I was just glad people began to embrace it.

There is no problem with consultants packaging this stuff and serving it to companies who wnat toi improve. It may be common sense, but it is not easy to get companies to do this stuff. Consultants and trainers help to achieve that.

We have no problem hiring specialists in accounting and law, why are we so hung up on hiring specialists to help us in quality.

It is said only a fool represents himself in court, maybe we should adopt the same thinking to improving quality and proficiency in companies.

Why do we continue to struggle to do this ourselves, when we can hire specialists to help us who won't cost anything (if their work is good)?

 

[Wes Bucey]

Amen to hiring ANY expertise not currently available in-house, but necessary for improvement.

It is true there is little any consultant can provide which a reasonably intelligent person can't learn and do himself, but why waste the time reinventing the wheel?

I certainly know enough about things like electrical wiring, circuitry, etc. to have rewired my house - heck, I even have most of the tools! Yet, I hired it out to a licensed contractor last month and got it done in about ten per cent of the time it would have taken me to do myself. The best part was when the building inspector came by and "blessed" the project and commended me for being savvy enough to hire a contractor as he related the tale of a do-it-yourselfer who was in the second month of a similar project with no end in sight.

As much as we try to help newbies here, the truth is a newbie would be much more efficient if he had an experienced consultant walk him through an entire project rather than picking it up in dribs and drabs and numerous threads which can sometimes go off topic and further confuse the situation.

I frequently hired outside expertise in my businesses when I couldn't justify a full-time employee and I have NEVER understood the mentality of a manager who would rather foul up a project than hire an expert on a short term basis to get it done.

Any ideas of the thought process operating which leads to such stubbornness?

 

[DsqrdDGD909]

Any ideas of the thought process operating which leads to such stubbornness?

Having been a consultant and having used consultants, I think it comes from the valid concern that some consultants never solve the problem or launch the project, they simply churn out piles of paper.

 

[Bev D]

...Lean. and it's not "common sense".

I am not so sure. We give it new titles, and new versions, and that is good. But the principles are not new, they are different flavors of applied common sense. Though, I might agree, it not not so "common."

I guess it depends on your definition of "common sense" there are many books and theses and articles extolling the virtues of batch processes and economic order points etc. that are the opposite of the TPS/Lean methods. They are fundamentally different - and tehy weren't developed by common sense any more than the theory of gravity or relativity was developed by common sense.

typically what I find is that those who think Lean is "just common sense" don't really knwo what lean is and they certainly don't do it...they batch and queue.

Certainly the principles are not new - although they continue to evolve and grow as we learn more - but their age doesn't equate to common sense or acceptance or use...

Lean isnt' hype, but some consulting hacks only sell hype about Lean!

 

[Wes Bucey]

Having been a consultant and having used consultants, I think it comes from the valid concern that some consultants never solve the problem or launch the project, they simply churn out piles of paper.

I never had this problem arise. Of course, I spent a lot of time in Contract Review before finalizing a consultant contract. I sure didn't just blindly pick my electrical contractor out of the phone book!

 

[Steve Prevette]

I guess it depends on your definition of "common sense" there are many books and theses and articles extolling the virtues of batch processes and economic order points etc. that are the opposite of the TPS/Lean methods. They are fundamentally different - and tehy weren't developed by common sense any more than the theory of gravity or relativity was developed by common sense.

It is my opinion (as an Operations Researcher, and a teacher of economic order points) that Lean is a direct outfall of the economic order point calculations. Also, the calculations for expected cost of a stockout versus cost of holding inventory. If you can drive down the administrative order costs, and reduce the probability of stockout, you will naturally end up with the Lean result - minimal inventory and low total costs.

It is interesting that Wes and others have pointed out that perhaps there are situations where you can't control the supply chain, and trying to force towards "Lean" inventories will increase costs due to stockouts.

 

[Wes Bucey]

In re: control of supply chain
Think of how many packages containing parts which were delayed and/or embargoed as result of 9-11-2001. Similarly when Hurricane Katrina shut down wide swaths of industries, all supply chain calculations got thrown for a loop.

For years (certainly longer than 30 years), I have counseled against "unprotected" supply chains. In my opinion, there is rarely a product where every step from raw material to finished product in the end user's hands can be JIT. Certainly a lot of lead time (and sometimes political ramifications) go into supplying tungsten for incandescent lamps. Somewhere along the line, a supplier has to hold finished inventory.

The most irritating factor is when some members of the supply chain refuse to pay a fair carrying charge for previous links to hold inventory for JIT delivery. It was a game I refused to play as customer OR supplier.

 

[Bev D]

It is my opinion (as an Operations Researcher, and a teacher of economic order points) that Lean is a direct outfall of the economic order point calculations. Also, the calculations for expected cost of a stockout versus cost of holding inventory. If you can drive down the administrative order costs, and reduce the probability of stockout, you will naturally end up with the Lean result - minimal inventory and low total costs.

sure but that's like saying that Deming is control charts. "Economic order points" is 1% of what TPS and Lean methods are about. If you want a good book on TPS I always suggest The Toyota Way" by Jeffrey Liker...it will demonstrate that Lean is not merely JIT or economic orderpoints or hype or just plain common sense. it also deals with the dillemas of when TPS/Lean methods should NOT be employed and hwo to deal with those situations...

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Amen to hiring ANY expertise not currently available in-house, but necessary for improvement.

It is true there is little any consultant can provide which a reasonably intelligent person can't learn and do himself, but why waste the time reinventing the wheel?

I certainly know enough about things like electrical wiring, circuitry, etc. to have rewired my house - heck, I even have most of the tools! Yet, I hired it out to a licensed contractor last month and got it done in about ten per cent of the time it would have taken me to do myself. The best part was when the building inspector came by and "blessed" the project and commended me for being savvy enough to hire a contractor as he related the tale of a do-it-yourselfer who was in the second month of a similar project with no end in sight.

As much as we try to help newbies here, the truth is a newbie would be much more efficient if he had an experienced consultant walk him through an entire project rather than picking it up in dribs and drabs and numerous threads which can sometimes go off topic and further confuse the situation.

I frequently hired outside expertise in my businesses when I couldn't justify a full-time employee and I have NEVER understood the mentality of a manager who would rather foul up a project than hire an expert on a short term basis to get it done.

Any ideas of the thought process operating which leads to such stubbornness?

maybe a misguided attempt to save money?

I recall my former house, we built two porches. I hired a friend, who was a semi-pro, to build them. The first one, I helped, and it took us 4 weeks. The second one he did alone in 3 days...

Boy, I saved a lot on that first one...

 

[Manoj Mathur]

I am 50 - 50 on this issue. I feel consultant(s) may know the concepts very well may be better then you. But your knowledge about your process or your equipments or problems or troubles is far far better then a Lean consultant.
Please correct me if I am wrong.