Interesting Discussion Lean Manufacturing Concepts - Is 'Lean' hype?

[Jim Wynne]

I am 50 - 50 on this issue. I feel consultant(s) may know the concepts very well may be better then you. But your knowledge about your process or your equipments or problems or troubles is far far better then a Lean consultant.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

The two aren't mutually exclusive; there's no reason to believe that hiring a consultant means that you can't also use your own knowledge and experience. It's good to assimilate information from different sources when planning for changes, and a consultant should be considered a source of information and not a final authority.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

I am 50 - 50 on this issue. I feel consultant(s) may know the concepts very well may be better then you. But your knowledge about your process or your equipments or problems or troubles is far far better then a Lean consultant.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

No, you are not wrong. But, I think that is why you work together with the consultant. Put your minds and knowledge together and achieve the best results.

 

[Bev D]

well, a good consultant can actually move you forward much faster and much more effectively as they won't bow to inside politics adn tehy can see thru and move thru those who arent' yet ready for the major changes that Lean woudl require. I've seen a lot of "fake lean" that implemented by internal personnel who had very little education or exposure to true lean concepts.

We see it even when all internal folks are involved. My Lean Belt is much better as an outsider at detecting and quashing the hedging and "it's alwys been that way" malaise than if the lean event is run only by those from teh target area...

Of course - I am believer in designating one or more interanl experts to come up to speed quickly so that you are not forever dependent on consultants...

adn of course the hack consultants will do more harm than good, so as Wes says - research them well and have tough contracts specifiying expectations...

 

[Madfox]

I've seen companies making money implementing Lean...I can't say that about the other stuff we discuss here!

The Madfox

 

[Helmut Jilling]

I've seen companies making money implementing Lean...I can't say that about the other stuff we discuss here!

The Madfox

I think sometimes our rhetoric and positions seem to get kind of silly in these threads...

All the major quality programs are built on the same principles. Reduce defects, reduce variation, standardize, satisfy the customer, improve quality, improve the interface between processes...

These principles support each other, and build on each other. They are logical, and I would argue, common sense principles that have existed in one form or another for decades. The programs are not exclusive of each other. They support each other.

The terms and principles get refined and evolve over time, but Lean, Six Sigma, ISO 9001, TPS, TPM, TQM... don't they all provide value if applied correctly?

Why do we pitch one against the other?

 

[Bev D]

well, exactly. much better said than my long winded explanations! (not my wind will get any shorter!)

It's not the thing - it's how you do the thing that matters!

 

[Steve Prevette]

Why do we pitch one against the other?

Well, if you want to know who threw the first punch, go back to the "Cowboy Quality" article in ASQ's Quality Progress with the cover picture of Cowboy Harry, and some of his quotes about other methodologies, and QP's comparing Harry to the next Deming.

 

[Bev D]

But we don't have to respond in kind. It hasn't taken most of the world very long to realize that Harry is and was a clown. Even GE turned away from him and his work pretty fast once they got past the first few waves.

But more to the point is that no single 'guru' is the one and the only. they are just men. As professionals we need to stick with the stuff that means something and not get into "my guru can beat up your guru" fights. frankly I don't care if something came from Deming/Schewhart/Juran/Crosby/Wheeler et al . I don't care if the man was right or wrong; I want to know if the tool or method has utility and how can I use it. Certainly we should give credit and reference previous work; but merely pointing that so and so said something does not move the understanding level or skill level of the profession forward. The fact that XYZ said it, is not proof of it's correctness or best-ness.

 

[Steve Prevette]

Bev D, I generally agree with you. I'm happy with the methods I use, they've gotten me good pay raises and good fame (of sorts). I'm willing to share and to help those who are interested in following the same path. If you are happy with a different path, then fine.

The difficulty is the Mikel Harry's of the world, and he is only the latest example. Listen to some of Statistical Steven's stories about how the six sigma drive has hurt his career. For me, all I need is some yahoo pushing on the US Government for "You oughta do this" and that comes down through government law (like "no child left behind") and contracts and guess what - I'm out of a job because they must hire in pink belts or whatever. It is unfortunate that those who are following tried and true non-sexy ways get over ridden by the latest snake oil medicine salesman.

I know, do we blame managment and law makers for being so susceptible, or do we blame the snake oil salesman.

Life isn't fair. But, hopefully that helps to document why you get very skeptical reactions to the latest fads from folks like me. If you are having success with your methods, then congratulations to you. I do want to learn what theories allowed you to reach your success. We should all learn from each other.

The name of this thread is "Is Lean Hype?". To me, it largely appears to have been hyped.

 

[psyched1]

Continuous Improvement by any one of a million names is just that.

Lean is only a means of increasing your cash flow by higher turnover of limited inventory, improving set up times and increasing through put. The lean system is askew when production equipment fails or JIT inventory is interrupted by weather conditions or acts of God as we witnessed with Katrina.

Basically we have processes linked to four aspects; man, method, machine and materials. Improvements to any of these objects be it through a 5S system, improving work flow/instructions (TQM), improving preventive maintenance to reduce breakdowns (TPM) or having solid vendors (Six Sigma suppliers) that deliver quality products should reduce cost.

It shouldn't take a guru to tell you an organized work space is more effecient, that planned maintenance will reduce breakdowns, That well documented processes and trained individuals can improve a process. That suppliers should be monitored and rewarded jobs based on their ability to provide product to specifications on time over cost.

These guru's have only broken down common sence manufacturing into bitesize spoonfuls that are easy to understand for senior management. There is an English movie from the 50's (long before my time) called "Right the First Time" that dramtically details lean concepts but back then then it wasn't a buzz word it was common sense.